In this episode, Janet shares an easy-to-remember, viable alternative to the strategies, games, scripts, threats, patient waiting, or coaxing we may have unsuccessfully tried in the past (while also explaining why those responses don’t tend to be sustainable). She offers examples through two letters. One parent, who resorts to eventually picking up her toddlers when they resist, shares: “My 3-year-old is getting much heavier, stronger, and faster, so the moments of resistance are becoming more difficult to overcome without struggle, and I don’t know what I will do in a year or two when he becomes even faster and stronger.” Another parent asks: “Is this level of dilly-dallying normal? If so, how should we deal with that? If the gentle ways don’t work, threats don’t work (or even make things worse in the long run), what else can we do?”

Transcript of “Resisting, Stalling, Dilly-Dallying”

Hi, this is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled.

Today I’m going to be talking about a topic I think many of us can relate to: What do we do when our kids resist all these things that go on during the day that we need them to do? It’s frustrating, right? When it seems like we just can’t budge them or they just seem to push back on everything. From getting out of bed in the morning to getting out the door, sitting down for a meal, brushing their teeth, getting ready for bed, going to school, leaving school. This can even become a pattern that just goes on throughout the day with children, it seems to be getting worse instead of better. So I’m excited to get into that topic, and I have two notes from parents about it.

What do our kids need from us? What’s going on with them? How can we fix this, or at least ease this, so it’s not happening constantly? Because we’re pulling our hair out, right? And really this topic is more than about helping our children to not resist as much. It’s really about helping ourselves, because this is so frustrating. And reading these notes, I can feel myself getting frustrated along with these parents who are sharing with me, I can feel my own stress level rising just imagining what’s going on there. So I get it. And I think—well, I hope—I can help these parents with some subtle shifts in their thinking and their approach.

Here are some of the shifts I’m going to explain: One, simplifying. Minimizing our agenda for kids to what’s really needed, letting go of some things. And then also simplifying by saying less, helping sooner and more readily. Closing those gaps where we’re waiting for our child to do it.

Two, being mentally prepared in regard to our expectations for the possible resistance that we’re going to be facing. Especially if this has been a pattern, we can sort of know, Oh, this could happen, so I’m ready for it. That’s how we set ourselves up for success.

What this will look like is instead of trying to negotiate with our child or get them to do something—I don’t even like that phrase, “get them to,” because it’s work. It’s us trying to make something happen with our child, and subtly we’re pitting ourselves against our child: I’m trying to get you to, so in a sense, I’m trying to sell you on and make you do this. Instead of what I recommend in regard to everything about parenting: partnering with our child. If we think about it, we don’t use strategies in other relationships in our lives. Well, maybe we do in certain business relationships, I don’t know, but with our loved ones, we’re not trying to get them to do this or that in a healthy relationship. We’re connecting, we’re communicating honestly, we’re encouraging. We’re working with, not against. We’re not using scripts. We’re being open and honest and receiving honestly from the other person as well.

Okay, so with all that general advice, here are some notes that I received:

Hi, Janet-

First of all, thank you. Your teachings about parenting have given me so much more peace and confidence than anything else I’ve tried as a parent. I find that a lot of my kids’ boundary-pushing behaviors lessen over time as we all—me, mostly—calm down.

One question I’ve had for a long time is how to help older kids when they’re resisting. My understanding of the early years is that we give babies and toddlers the opportunity to do what they need to in their own steam, for example, to come and clean their teeth or get dressed or put down the heavy object they were about to throw. But then if they don’t do it, rather than having a long, never-resolved standoff, we just calmly help them.

With my two—my first is three-and-a-half years old and my second is 22 months—this usually looks like carrying them places, as they’re not usually willing to walk or cooperate at all in those moments. I try to do this as you have modeled, calmly and positively. Neutrally, without being annoyed at their resistance. “I can see you’re having a hard time putting that toy down, so I’m just going to help you,” or “It’s hard to stop what you’re doing, isn’t it? I’ll help you come get dressed. I can see that’s really hard for you right now.” Okay, maybe I don’t always say it as perfectly as that, but I try to get somewhere close.

Anyway, my question is, my three-year-old is getting much heavier, stronger, and faster, so the moments of resistance are becoming more difficult to overcome without struggle. And I don’t know what I will do in a year or two when he becomes even faster and stronger. What if I can’t catch him as he runs away? What if he’s too strong to help with getting dressed when he’s refusing to let me put his pants on? He’s already kind of there at the moment. Carrying to help has been the most wonderful way to diffuse the situation when the kids are small and it is still socially appropriate to carry them around. I use it all the time and we are happier for it, but what is the replacement end-this-power-struggle move when the kid is older and I can’t just set a boundary by physically helping them comply?

Also, you’ll want to know that baby number three is on the way, and of course that will be a big factor behind any of my boys’ behaviors over the next few months. This is another reason I’ve had this question as when you’re pregnant, most people will tell you not to lift. But I couldn’t figure out how to go about life without carrying my toddlers when they dug their heels in, so I went back to just lifting them whenever I needed and hoping my inside baby wouldn’t mind.

Any advice for this issue would be so greatly appreciated. I would also apply it to my interactions with resistant kids at school when I go back to teaching primary school one day. Thank you so very much.

Okay, so a lot of little things here stand out for me. First of all, I want to help this parent. She says, “When I stick to it properly, I find that a lot of my kids’ boundary-pushing behaviors lessen over time.” So even this idea of “properly,” and I think later she says, “Okay, maybe I don’t always say it as perfectly as that.” Properly, perfectly. I would love to encourage this parent and all parents to just lose those ideas that there’s a proper, perfect way to do anything as a parent, but especially to help our child when they’re pushing back like this or when they’re stalling or resisting us. And to, again, get more in that mindset of partnering with our child.

Because I’m also hearing in this note that she’s supposed to do this “calmly and positively,” “neutrally, without being annoyed” at her children’s resistance. So it feels like a lot of should here. It’s natural to be annoyed with children when they’re not behaving as an adult would in that moment or an older child would, or behaving as they can when they’re in a different mood, right? They’re not always like this. It’s normal to get annoyed by that. What helps us to feel better and less annoyed is what I was mentioning earlier about our expectation of what our child’s going through, what their behavior could very well be, because they’ve been showing this pattern.

Understanding as this parent does that, yeah, they feel this transition coming on with their mom expecting another baby. And from pretty early on in the pregnancy, children feel that shift. I can remember as a child—I was thinking about this just the other day—I was three when my mom was expecting my younger sister, and I have two older ones as well. I could sense my mother sort of pulling her attention away from me, ever so subtly. I mean, I think I’m a sensitive person, but wow, I remember that feeling that I was losing her. Children feel that, and it’s scary. It’s this shift and you notice it as a child. So I’m sure they’re feeling that, and yes, it will continue after she has the baby, I imagine. But there’s a lot of reason for them to be struggling right now, as this parent acknowledges.

So going in knowing that, I would way simplify. Physically help more earlier, and say much less than what this parent is doing. Because she says she’s saying things like, “I can see you’re having a hard time putting that toy down, so I’m just going to help you.” Maybe that’s something we say the first time our child does that, but we don’t really need to say all of that. When we partner with our child, we can have shorthand, we don’t have to explain all of these things. The fact that she says, “I can see you’re having a hard time putting that toy down, so I’m just going to help you.” I don’t know, I just, as I’m saying this, I feel my temperature rising. I’m kind of, Ugh. Instead of just noticing that. Maybe that’s part of my inner monologue, Oh, they’re having a hard time putting that toy down. But you know what? I’m not surprised because a lot of things are kind of falling apart these days as we’re all in this rocky family transition.

So as soon as I see that hesitation to put the toy down, I’m going to be on that. In fact, I may be on that even before. I might be ready, if I want my child to put that toy down because it’s time to go or do something else or maybe they’re using the toy unsafely. I can kind of see that energy coming or I’m expecting it, and I come close and I say, “Oh, you know what? I’m going to help you out here,” as I’m helping take the toy. So that’s what confident momentum is. You’ve heard me talk about that a lot. This idea that we’re coming in early with momentum to help our child through all these little transitions that they struggle with, especially when there are greater transitions going on. So all these little transitions, I’m going to help close the gaps.

And when we’re there early, we don’t have to resort to picking our child up as much. That’s usually a sign that we’re waiting too long. I mean, sometimes we are going to be a little late to the game and we are going to need to pick them up or that’s going to be the right move in the moment if it’s an emergency or whatever. But coming in early with partnership and seeing them and seeing what’s going on as early as we can, expecting it. That will help us to just take their hand or be ready, not allowing that standoff. What this parent calls power struggle, which is sort of what can happen when we wait or we try to verbalize what we want our child to do or even what we’re going to do, as in this situation. We don’t have to verbalize it to that extent, our thought process. We can just think our thought process and maybe pretty quickly, because we’re expecting this, make that change, give that help, offer that partnership right there. My child needs me, I’m going to help them. I see they’re not able to do these things themselves these days, so I’m going to kindly help.

And then she says, “It’s hard to stop what you’re doing, isn’t it? I’ll help you come get dressed.” We still might say that, but I would say it while you’re already in motion. “Yeah, I know. You want to keep doing that. Here we go. We’re going to get dressed, my love. It’s time.” So simplifying it, starting earlier.

And then, “I can see that’s really hard for you right now.” Maybe we don’t express that because it can get a little—I don’t want to say “shaming” because I really don’t want this parent or any parent to feel even more like they’re not doing it properly or they have to be perfect. That’s the last thing I want. But we don’t need to kind of rub that in and say those words. We can just say, “Come on, here we go.” Yep, I know it’s hard to do this sometimes. So here I am, I’m always going to help you. It’s not a script, but it’s an attitude. It’s a recognition of what’s going on and what children need from us. Then we don’t have to try to battle against what she says is her three-year-old’s getting much heavier, stronger, and faster. So she says, “the moments of resistance are becoming more difficult to overcome without struggle.” So we overcome them by anticipating them and helping out sooner.

And she says, “I don’t know what I’ll do in a year or two when he becomes even faster and stronger. What if I can’t catch him as he runs away? What if he’s too strong to help with getting dressed when he is refusing to let me put his pants on? He’s already kind of there at the moment.” So when a child runs away in those situations, I wouldn’t try to run and catch them because there we’re getting caught up in a power struggle with them and it’s going to be frustrating for us. There’s no way around that. Instead, don’t try to control what we don’t control. Say, “You know what? I’m going to go be in your room with your brother. I’m going to help him get dressed. You let me know when you’re ready. I can’t wait to get you dressed, too.” That’s how we partner with and avoid the struggle. We kind of cut our losses. Maybe this is going to take five or 10 minutes longer, but I’m not going to put myself in the position where I’m chasing after this guy, which only encourages him to keep running and resisting, right? We can help melt away that resistance by not engaging in it. It takes two to be in a power struggle. So we can let him try to engage us in that struggle, but we’re just not going to take the bait.

And, “What if he’s too strong to help with getting dressed when he’s refusing to put his pants on?” So I wonder if she’s approaching that early enough and just, “Come on, let’s do this. Ah, you don’t want to.” And acknowledging, allowing him to have all those feelings. But then if you feel like you’re starting to butt up against him, “Let’s take these pants and we’ll bring ’em in the car and you can change there.” Let it go when it’s not working, like that. With all the love in the world, refuse to engage in the struggle. Either override it or let it go.

So she says, “What is the replacement end-this-power-struggle move when the kid is older?” So I wouldn’t wait until a child is older, I would actually start this right away. It’s not a replacement, it’s partnership. And not being willing to get into a tug of war or any kind of struggle with them or a chase. Rising above it. And she talks about, “when you’re pregnant, most people tell you not to lift.” Right, even more reason to practice that confident momentum, helping earlier, letting go of the things we don’t control.

Now just circling back to one thing which she mentions: brushing teeth. And I know I brought that up. Things like brushing teeth, where there isn’t a “picking them up and making them do that” option. How do we do this without trying to make a game out of it, and we have to figure out a way to coax them and get them there? It’s being honest in the partnership. “You know we’ve got to brush your teeth. That’s something that’s really important. Because I know you like to eat things that get in your teeth and sometimes like to eat sweets. So we’ve got to do this. What can I do to help? How can we do this?” Letting go of it sometimes, because we don’t really control it, and the less control that we have in an area, the more important it is to partner, approach it lightly and politely, with a lot of understanding of our child not wanting to do it. Not just saying the words, “I know you don’t want to do it,” but really getting that. And while other kinds of tactics like play, it can make it work sometimes because to be able to play, we have to be kind of in a light mood anyway. So it does work for that reason, but not in the long term.

What works in the long term is that honesty. “You know you’ve got to brush them. I know you’ve got to brush them. How are we going to do this? We could do it earlier in the evening when you’re not so tired. How about we bring it to the dinner table and after you eat dinner, you brush your teeth? How would you like to do this?” And whether we’re actually talking all about it that much or not, it’s just that idea of, I’m with you and I get it. So that’s the direction I would go for this parent. And the more she does it now, the more our children will want to cooperate with us in the future because they feel that. They feel us with them, not so frustrated by them all the time, which is natural to feel if we’re working at it this hard. So I hope some of that can help this parent.

And here’s another note. It’s long and wonderfully detailed. I thought about editing it, but then I thought, why not just share all the details here? It might be helpful to hear the whole story that this parent’s giving me:

I’ve been following your podcast and reading your book and wondering if you could provide further guidance on a topic my wife and I are still struggling with almost on a daily basis. We have two kids. W is a boy, three-and-a-half years old, and E is a girl, five months old. And the issue we have is with his dilly-dallying on everything, from eating to getting ready to doing his “homework.”

I’ll illustrate with a few examples: Getting ready in the morning. It starts with him refusing to wake up and get to the washroom to brush his teeth and pee. I’ll try various gentle ways to wake him up. For example, tickling him with his stuffy and playing music. When those don’t work, I’d tell him, “We need to get ready quickly, otherwise we’d be late and I’d have no choice but to drive really fast. You don’t like me to go really fast, do you?” Which is pretty much a threat, and unfortunately I’ve had to use this more often than I like, even though I’m aware that this is doing more harm than good. I even often ask him if he wants to sleep longer on the condition he eats his breakfast at the daycare instead of at home. Ninety-five percent of the time, he’ll choose to sleep longer, but most of the time ended up playing right away instead of eating his breakfast first when he gets to the daycare. When even the threat doesn’t work, I’d scoop him up and carry him to the washroom. Often he’d try to wiggle away on our way or when we get there, he’d run back to his room. I’d carry him back, get him to stand up, where his legs turned to jelly.

Next, brushing teeth. I’ve come to the point where I’ve helped him to brush teeth and getting dressed 95% of the time, helping him move along with confident momentum. I’d start with helping him gargle, but because of his jelly feet, some water would spill on his pajamas and hence the next source of meltdown. By now, I’ve gotten used to his crying and wailing while I help him brush his teeth. This initially made me uncomfortable and though difficult, I’ve learned to understand that he feels upset and I should allow him to have and express that emotion.

After he gets dressed, he usually chooses to play for a bit instead of resting or lying down while I get dressed. The strange thing is, by then he’s like a completely different kid, often all smiley. It’s like the struggle just five minutes earlier never happened.

On the way to daycare, I’d ask what he should do when he gets into the room, to which he always recites all the steps. But once we step into daycare, all of those go out the window. He’d run and hide, wanting me to catch him despite my posture, in addition to mentioning it explicitly that it’s not a game. I’d remind him what we talked about, what he needed to do, almost always to no avail. As above, I’d end up getting him ready, taking his jacket off, washing his hands, etc., which gets the quickest result. But I worry by doing that, I’m not setting him up for success because when all of these are happening, to add insult to injury, other kids, some younger than him, often passed by heading to their lockers and getting ready on their own.

Eating. Long story short, he can eat quickly when he wants to, but he often does not. He’d stand up, walk around his chair, etc. We’d be the ones getting anxious and would end up imposing time limit if he’s been taking too long. He’d still dilly-dally and finally would get anxious toward the last couple of minutes because he knew he wouldn’t make it and hence would not get his treat, for example, chocolate. Recently we have started letting him take the lead regarding the portion he wants to eat. We no longer require him to finish everything on his plate. We took careful consideration in terms of portioning, but finally realized we were fighting a losing battle. However, once he starts dilly-dallying, we take it as a sign that he’s getting full and will take away his plate. He still gets his treat, but when it comes to snack time, he’ll need to finish his dinner first before he gets to eat his snacks. Otherwise, he’d game the system, and we have noticed he would eat much more snacks. No bad kids, but boy are they really smart.

When we take his plate, he’d start screaming, saying he still wants to eat. We would say that he started moving around and slowing down, so we take it as a sign that he’s full and that if he still wants to eat, we’ll eat again soon. He’d march to the kitchen and take back his plate. We’d say if he insists to eat again, now versus later, this would be his last chance to demonstrate that he’ll continue to be seated until he’s done eating, because the next time he shows the signs again, the plate is not coming back no matter how much he kicks and screams.

Homework. After dinner, we’d get him to trace alphabets, two letters, 18 times each. Again, he’d dilly-dally. He’ll want to pick his own crayon, he’ll put the crayon on the desk. He’ll stand up to get something, tipping the desk in the process. Crayon would fall down. He’d grab the crayon, put it down on the desk, try to grab something else. He’d finally start to write, but he’d press down too hard, break the crayon, have a meltdown because the crayon breaks, demand we fix the crayon and give him another crayon. This ritual could easily take 10 to 15 minutes. It’s like watching a clown performance for kids with him as the main star.

Again, he can do these two worksheets very quickly in about 15 minutes. However, with all this nonsense at the start and dilly-dally while doing it as well, the whole thing could take 45 minutes. As a result his TV time, which comes next, is cut short to 10 minutes. He’d then scream and wail again when we tell him to turn off the TV.

I know that kids live in the now and there often is a lack of sense of urgency, but is this level of dilly-dallying normal? If so, how should we deal with that? If the gentle ways don’t work, threats don’t work or even make things worse in the long run, what else can we do?

And although we just had a newborn, this dilly-dallying has started before that. We just have less time and energy to put up with it because we have more things to do and an entire additional human being to look after. If we continue to help him do things that he can technically do on his own, are we doing more harm than good in the long run? Can this method/principle mesh well with William Stixrud’s The Self-Driven Child, where the more we do for our kids, the less they do for themselves? And ultimately, with all our efforts in parenting, how and when do we know we’ve succeeded? Especially if the goal is not pure compliance.

P.S. I was raised in a family that focused on academic achievements, so I vowed not to let my kids go through that. That is, until our close friends’ kid didn’t make it to a kindergarten of their choice. Their kid is very bright, so I take it as the failure on the parents’ part that this happened. And it’s exactly because my kid would be considered relatively bright that I do not want to fail him and take it as my responsibility to ensure he’s well-prepared.

Okay. So this parent, as with the other parent, but even more so, is taking on so much responsibility that, in my view, doesn’t belong to them and is making everything harder. This responsibility to get him to eat a certain amount, to get him to do homework at three years old. No early childhood educator would agree that that’s something that a preschooler needs to do or even a kindergartener or first grader needs to do. So that stands out especially to me as something to totally take off your plate as a parent. Not even consider. Because if children want to do this kind of work at that age, they do it. And I’m a believer that homework at any age is between a child and their teacher. It shouldn’t start this early, but when it does, it’s really up to that teacher and the child to make that work together. With all the responsibilities we have and the boundaries we have to make for children, this is way over the top to me. I know other people will disagree. So scratch that off your list.

And then it seems like this parent is noticing that all the negotiations, gentle ways to try to coax him to get up, with his stuffy, playing music, tickling. And then when those don’t work, he tells him, “We need to get up really quickly, otherwise we’ll be late and I’ll have no choice but to drive really fast,” which his child doesn’t like. Or he could sleep longer on the condition he eats his breakfast at daycare. So all of that is way too much for this child to try to process and understand and make choices around. Especially in these transitions of getting up, getting to school, brushing his teeth. Children can’t handle that amount of thought process and choice around these things. They just need us to help them do it, with love and honesty and partnership.

And as this parent sees, it’s not helping him either. He’s getting exhausted and completely frustrated because he’s trying to reason with his child at times when his child is totally incapable of doing that. And this huge transition that’s happening with the new baby, which frames so much of this issue of what this boy’s going through. So that’s a big reason why he’s struggling with all these other transitions and needs help. Not coaxing, not threatening, not demands and complications, but just simple help.

So if we have to get him up in the morning, anticipating, being ready for that. “Here we go, my boy. I’m going to help you up. Oh, you don’t want to get up now. I know. We’ve got to do this bathroom thing. I know you don’t like to do it. Brushing the teeth. Alright, we’ll make it quick. Is there a way we can do it that’s better for you?” Closing the gaps, moving it along. Confident momentum only works when we are totally willing to do it from a place of partnership, which means, Yeah, all your feelings of not wanting to do this, I totally get. You don’t want to do this, you don’t want to do that. Not just saying words, again, but really being willing to join our child in understanding that. And just working through it as best we can. Not trying to get him to do it. Putting our arms around him, holding his hand. If he needs to run away, let him run away. He’ll come back if you stay put and just say, “You know, I’m here for you, buddy. I can’t wait for you to come back.”

If we can be in that loving partnership place, children are drawn to us like a magnet. If we’re in that understanding, empathic, partnering, I’m with you buddy place. It’s a whole different vibe and it’s hard for me to get into all the specifics of how this looks in all these situations, but that’s why I’m hoping people listening will just try to embrace this as a whole different view. It’s a view of knowing and seeing and empathizing with, if we can, what’s going on with our child. It could still be frustrating, but when we feel ourselves get frustrated, instead of trying to push through it, let go. Take a moment. Breathe. Think to yourself, Does it really matter if he goes to daycare on time today? Maybe it does.

It certainly doesn’t matter if he does homework at this age, I can guarantee you. Children learn those types of skills not from doing worksheets or repetitive drawing of letters, but through their own play with materials, building the concepts for the letters and numbers, so that they want to be able to express themselves and they want to learn those symbols. To practice these kind of letter drills, it’s like doing the icing without doing the cake. That’s the easy stuff. When they’re ready, they do that. Or they ask for help, they want help to figure it out.

And then the eating. Again, it’s great that this parent has switched to not having him clean his plate because there’s another thing we don’t control that we do not want to take on. We don’t want to take on anything we don’t control, which includes him writing letters and the frustration of the crayon and the whole thing. I mean, as this dad says, it’s like a clown show. Yeah! Why are we signing up for this? It’s obviously something where we don’t control any of it and he doesn’t need it. So, letting that go.

What else? Brushing his teeth and peeing. Just carry him through, get him there, do your best with the toothbrush. Maybe he wants to rinse sometimes, rinse his mouth. If he hasn’t eaten anything in the morning, he might not need to brush his teeth at that age. But the more energy that we expend with the strategies and the tactics, the harder it’s going to be for us to partner with our child, the more distance that puts between us. We’re putting all this effort in, it’s not working, it’s not working. There’s no way we’re not going to get frustrated by that. I mean, we deserve to be frustrated by that.

This is a time when there’s a new baby in the house and we have a toddler or two toddlers. This is a time when we get ourselves through, all together, joining hands, joining hearts, letting our child in on this time. We’re just together as a family and there’s a lot of feelings and everybody’s tired and everybody’s frustrated and it’s hard. So we just do our best. That kind of bonding, I wouldn’t do it as a strategy, but it is a strategy in a way, because that’s how children are willing to do all these things. And they might put up a little, Oh no, I don’t want to. And if we can understand that, it’s short-lived. So I would back all of these attempts way back into just helping him get going and get through it.

It seems like the treats after dinner thing is not working so well right now if it’s becoming this negotiation. I wouldn’t let him get up in the middle of eating. There’s no need a child has to do that. I would say, really honestly, “This is time to eat. Just sit for as long as you want to eat. When you get up, that means you’re done. And maybe the treats aren’t working for us for a while.”

And then let him have those meltdowns, because those meltdowns are really what’s behind a lot of this resistance. It’s like this, I’m holding on, holding on, holding on because I need to explode and be unhappy about something. Which is really just my stress in this situation, my fear and this whole unraveling that I’m feeling about having this baby come into my life and take my parents’ attention away from me. Children do need to melt down around that. So the natural time for him to do that is when you’re being very reasonable about, This is how meals go. We sit. We eat. When you’re done, you’re done. And that’s okay, but we’re not going to hold out that you get a treat if you do this or you get that if you do that, or you get TV if you do this. So approaching those limits that you do have control over, offering them reasonably with love, but from a place of knowing he may need to share with us here. And then when he does, it’s not ridiculous that you’re having this overblown reaction to not getting your chocolate or not getting your TV. This is the venting that toddlers with babies need to do.

So instead of feeling disappointed or that we’ve done the wrong thing, frustrated because he’s not making sense, he could have done this other thing and avoided it and then he could have gotten his treat. Don’t go there. Just welcome that. Roll out the red carpet for him to feel that. Oh, you wanted that TV so much today and we didn’t have time. On his side, but still holding onto those reasonable boundaries.

I love that this dad said, “The strange thing is by then he’s like a completely different kid, often all smiley. It’s like the struggle just five minutes earlier never happened.” Yeah, it’s a symbolic struggle of, Everything’s not going great in my life right now. I’ve got this big crisis going on with this baby, and I just need to be in this mode. It’s not that he’s desperately incapable of doing these things. And that’s what I want to get back to because that’s how this parent finishes is, should he be worried by his child not seeming able to do these things and the parent doing them for him, that that’s going to somehow make him less capable? And it’s actually the opposite because when we realize the kind of emotional crisis that children go through with the addition of a sibling… Oftentimes, maybe not always, but oftentimes they do. And when we realize that, and it’s not, This is how I’m always going to be from here on out. Same with the other child in the first parent’s note. This is what’s going on right now, that I need a helping hand. I’m not at my best and maybe you’re not either as my parent who’s also dealing with it, but this is where I am. I need more help right now. And actually, if you can give it to me with love and staying on my side and my team, then it’s going to even set me up better to accomplish in those times that I can. Right now I’m showing you that I can’t.

It’s so easy as parents, I know, I remember this so much when my kids were little, that you just feel like this is going to be forever, whatever you’re going through. Or this is a bad sign. I remember during the winter season, it’s like, Oh, someone’s going to be sick forever. Children are constantly changing and growing and developing, and they always do show us when they’re struggling, when they need more help. And that’s what both of these children are showing in common ways, which is resisting, stalling. They’re waving little flags. Just help me! Just see me! Don’t do all this talking and trying and working around it. Just help me out here and see me as I am.

And I really hope some of this helps you or at least eases some of your worries about the direction your children are heading in. And thank you so much for listening. We can do this.

The post Resisting, Stalling, Dilly-Dallying appeared first on Janet Lansbury.

Transcript of “Let Kids Choose . . . Except When They Can’t”

Hi, this is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled.

Today I’m going to be talking about choices. Most of us know already that it can be helpful and confidence-building to give our young children choices, and continue to give them more and more choice as they get older, so that we can nurture that sense of autonomy and agency in them. They can feel that their point of view is valued by us.

The focus of this podcast is going to be on the less-intuitive aspects of giving children choices, understanding that there are certain situations where we may want to be giving them a choice and it doesn’t work out for us or for them. And that can frustrate us, infuriate us even. How do we puzzle this out? How do we know when to give choices or what kind of choices to give children, and what kind of choices they need us to make? So I’m looking forward to getting into this more thoroughly and hopefully answering some of the questions that you might have.

So yes, it’s pretty intuitive for most of us, this idea of giving our little ones choices. And this becomes more obvious when they are toddlers because they seem to seek that kind of autonomy. That’s part of their development at that age, is to feel their sense of self, their sense of separateness from us, their power in the world. Interestingly, Magda Gerber inspired us to begin offering our children these types of decisions with our infants so that they can get a taste of their little bit of power in the world. Obviously, they are dependent on us in almost every way, but there are a few areas where they can actually start to express self and start to feel more of a sense of autonomy.

For example, when we come in the room or we see them waking up, rather than immediately picking up our baby or directing their attention to us, Hi, sweetie!, she suggested that we first observe whether they might be involved in their own train of thought and not interrupting, because that’s a choice that they are able to make. And that also looks like, that we would place just a couple of simple toys or objects in their vicinity when they’re lying on the floor or in their cribs or in their playpens, rather than placing it in their hand, so that they can decide whether they want to grasp something. Maybe they just want to look at it, or maybe they just want to stretch their arm out towards it. We can trust our babies with those kinds of decisions, and there are many benefits to allowing them to make those whenever possible.

We might consider not putting a mobile or a play gym right above them, right in the center of their vision. That can feel like they don’t have a choice. They can try to look away from it, but it’s a choice that we’ve made for them right there. Instead, if we have a mobile that we think is beautiful or some kind of hanging toys, we might place those to the side, giving that infant a choice to check that out or not. This is also a great way to protect against overstimulation, because babies will turn away when something is too stimulating. They can start to gauge this for themselves better than we can gauge it for them. So when we give them those options, then they have a chance to do that.

Another thing we do is, let’s say our baby is uncomfortable and we sense it’s teething pain, instead of offering them that one teether, we offer two so that even then a baby can choose which of those they want. They often take both, by the way, but at least we’re giving them that chance. They can make these kinds of choices. I didn’t know any of this with my first baby, but with my second two, I saw, Wow, there’s so much going on for them and they are so much more capable than we’d expect. And then the choice that follows those choices is that, once they have chosen that toy or object, and this of course continues throughout their toddlerhood and preschool age and everything, that the materials are there for them—they get to decide how they want to use them. And even with art materials —within reason, with boundaries around it— they get to choose what they do with that, how they experiment with it, and for how long. So those are all really healthy, powerful choices that children can make and continue to make.

Then, as we notice with our toddlers, choices become even more important because developmentally they’re seeking that autonomy and that sense of self as separate from us. It’s healthy for them to do. So offering them choices whenever possible can be empowering for them and set them up to confidently make all kinds of choices throughout their life.

And then here’s where it gets tricky: This desire that we’ll have to keep offering choices, it can also confuse and frustrate us as parents because it can be hard to know when choices don’t work as well or at all. So knowing these things, being clear about the choices we can give and the choices that children can’t make as easily and really do need us to make, will help us a lot as parents. And that’s what I want to focus on in this podcast. I have three types of choices that it can seem like might be a good idea for us to give our child, but they actually need us to make.

1) The first is the most obvious one: false choices. That’s when we give a choice like, Okay, do you want to go to Aunt Lisa’s? And we were already planning, we’re all going to Aunt Lisa’s. That really wasn’t an actual choice we were giving our child, but we were kind of framing it that way because that felt, I don’t know, maybe more respectful or kind. But the thing is, then we’re going to be probably disappointed or frustrated if our child says, No, I don’t want to go. Where do we go from there?

With children, they often miss those kinds of subtleties, and they really need, as much as possible, clarity: Is this my choice or isn’t it? And even that word, “okay?”. So for me, I still say, “okay?” at the end of a sentence with a child sometimes because it’s such a habit for so many of us. It’s time to go, okay? We’re going to do this now, okay? I mean, none of this is cut and dry, but it’s just something to be aware of, that “okay?” is offering the choice: Is this okay with you or not? When the only answer we want is yes to that choice, then maybe we should reconsider the way we’re framing those sentences. Choices that are actually not choices, it’ll work better for us if we try to avoid those.

Then even choices like, Do you want to go in two minutes or five minutes? Hmm, all right, so I guess that’s a real choice. And there’s nothing wrong with that. It just feels a little bit —and I think it will come off to children as a little bit— tricky and manipulative. That we’re trying to pretend we’re giving them a choice, but it’s really not that great of a choice. Just something to consider. Because directness, honesty, clarity, we can count on those as our best policies. That’s what we want to model for children, right? And that is the most respectful. And we’re all works in progress at this. But if we’re aiming to be that confident, loving leader that’s not afraid to say the truth, not afraid of our child not being happy with our decisions because we know that that’s part of their right. And especially as toddlers, to be that autonomous person means disagreeing with us a lot of the time. Even when they don’t actually disagree, but they just feel the need to. So the more that we can meet those situations with confidence because we expect them, we know it’s okay, that it’s not our job to please our child all the time. In fact, it’s our job to help them have an honest relationship with us. And part of that is the ups and downs of our relationship, the ups and downs of our boundaries and what we allow, what’s going to work for us and the rest of the family. The more that they can feel those ups and downs, the more confidence and happiness they feel.

2) The second type of choice that will help us to be aware of: choices in transitions. Transitions, I have my theories that I’ve expressed here before about why these are so hard for young children. I think one of the reasons… I kind of understand them is because they are still hard for me. The toddler in me gets, I don’t know, this weird, panicky feeling sometimes when I just have to go from point A to point B. Getting ready to go out somewhere, all of a sudden I can’t figure out what I’m supposed to do. There’s a stress involved in it, leaving one thing that you were doing and moving on to another. And for young children, with all the developmental transition that’s going on inside them, and then oftentimes situational transitions in their lives— moving houses, finishing school, starting a school, a new baby in the family. All of those things add another layer of transition. And then these little everyday transitions, especially going to bed at night, that’s the hardest of all, right? Because they’re tired, we’re tired. That’s the king of all transitions and not in the best way.

So I would be very careful about giving choices in transitions. A simple choice like, Do you want to walk to the car or shall I carry you? Now, this doesn’t mean that we wouldn’t give a choice like that, because it can also help a child through a transition to feel that they are in charge of that in some real way. But when doing that, I would always have in the back of your mind, if you can remember to, that they may not be able to make this choice, because it’s a transition. And I just think of this capital T, this kind of neon sign, Transition! Transition!, just to help myself prepare for the idea that my child may not be able to do that.

We might look at this as similar to when we’re in a big life transition —which young children are every day because they’re changing so much and growing so much— that trying to figure out what we want to make for dinner, that kind of choice, it’s just nice to have somebody else say, Okay, we’re going to bring the dinner, or, Let’s just put this together. Because having to just make those simple choices when we’re overwhelmed is really hard. And this is how young children feel a lot of the time. So when we give the choice like that, which is still great to offer, have in your mind they may not be able to do it, and they may need me to help them through.

So I’m poised right there, ready, to see, can my child move forward with getting into the car, let’s say. I offer the choice and now they’re pausing. So what we often end up doing as parents is we wait, we wait. And then the longer we wait, the harder this gets for our child, because it’s like they’re falling into this chasm of transition-land and they’re getting stuck. So before that has a chance to happen, I would say, You know what? I’m going to pick you up and take you, or, Come on, let’s go. I’m going to actually be the one to put this on for you. And yes, our child may complain at that point. They may have a strong reaction. I would expect that too, because that’s them expressing the discomfort of the transition. And maybe through that, the discomfort of all the other transitions going on for them. All of those are getting expressed together, which is why it’s often so strong when children express things. Seems like, Wow, we’re really hurting them, helping them to the car or helping them in the car seat, because they express things all the way.

And that’s why I recommend what I call confident momentum, knowing that transitions are a time that children will need more help and more awareness on our part, that this is tough for them, and they probably can’t handle a lot of decision-making power. They may be able to handle a little bit, but not necessarily. And definitely not a lot. Sometimes I’ve seen this, very loving parents, we want to give three decisions, right? Do you want to go this way, that way, or the other way? And then that gets really impossible for a child in a transition. I’m not saying they can never do it, but it’s a tricky place.

The other day I had an experience that ended up inspiring, in part, this topic today. I was jogging on the public beach near me. It’s a small town, and I guess this parent had already reached out to me and we couldn’t quite click. She wanted to start a little group of children for me to come facilitate, and we just couldn’t arrange it together. But anyway, I’m jogging by and this woman said, “Are you Janet Lansbury?” And believe me, I don’t get recognized randomly, but because it’s a small town, and she had reached out to me. And she said, “Oh, you know, I’m a fan of your work. Thank you. And I love it, but it’s really hard, right? And you know, it just doesn’t always work.” And not to negate anybody’s experience, but I wouldn’t be doing any of this if I thought it was too hard and that it wasn’t going to work. For me, there’s just no point sharing something that I think might or might not work. I’m not confident about a lot of things in my life, but I’m very confident that this works. And so I gently countered her and was asking what she was referring to.

By then I stopped jogging and we were talking, and she was great and really open. Her adorable toddler son was right there. And she said, “I try to help him go to the car and I give him a choice, or what shoes he wants to wear. Then I wait and wait, and then he can’t, and then he changes his mind, and it’s really, really hard, right? And then when I do have to pick him up or help him move, then he gets really, really upset.”

And so because I was with her, I was able to hear that and actually kind of show her, without touching her son. (Although he was trying to distract me so I wouldn’t talk to her about this!) I was able to gesture and demonstrate with her. I was even kind of bending towards him as I gave him the choice. And so I was ready, with my hands out, ready to help him if he paused. And I showed her how, if he pauses, you can help him right away. And then you may get some pushback for sure, but it won’t be to the extent of what happens when we wait for our child to make that choice. And we’re trying to be so respectful and so caring and loving, but we’re making it harder for our child and harder for ourselves without meaning to. And she was grateful, I think, for the advice. And she said, “Oh, okay, yeah, that makes it clearer.”

This is so much easier to demonstrate than to try to explain in words or even in a podcast. So I appreciate those opportunities. I’ve never seen this not work. I don’t know if that sounds cocky or something, but it’s really what I believe.

So, choices in transitions, be careful. It’s probably more of a yellow light. Just be careful, be aware that it might not work. And as soon as you feel your child pausing or stuck, you can help them through very lovingly and make that decision for them.

3) The third area where choices can be difficult, and this dovetails with the transitions topic: when children are upset, dysregulated, or otherwise not in a reasonable state of mind. Very hard for them to make a choice then, because a choice takes the prefrontal cortex part of their brain, which is not developed, not in a mature state, so it very easily goes offline. And we all know that happens to all of us when we’re dysregulated or upset. We can’t access that reasonable part of ourselves. We can see when our child is upset, that isn’t going to be a time that they can make choices. I’m not going to say always, but almost always.

Here’s an email I received:

Hi Janet,

My daughter is two-and-a-half. She has entered a stage where she wants and then doesn’t want and then wants something. In the context of extremely intense emotions— screaming, pushing away, with risk of throwing, crying, begging me to come close, but then insisting on space if I do.

I would love your perspective on this. It seems like she’s in distress. She’s having strong emotions and I want to welcome those, but I don’t want to accommodate the yes/nos. I tell her after the first one that I won’t accommodate, so I either won’t give her the thing or won’t come to her despite her begging for a hug. Because I know if I do, she’ll scream and demand that I give her space. Any advice or recommendations here?

Sometimes I have to “mama bear” if she’s in one of these modes and it is time to change clothes. But otherwise, if we have time, I try to just take her to her room and ride it out with her. But the intensity of it really makes me question myself. Am I feeding this behavior in some way? Am I refusing to give her the emotional support she needs by setting a boundary when she starts the yes/nos and refusing to come to her or give her the thing? It is such a frustrating place because there is no winning, especially when it’s bedtime.

Yes. So this is a common issue, and this parent is spot on that her child can’t make those decisions at those times. The two-and-a-half-year-old is not accessing the reasonable part of her brain. She can’t do it.

This parent says, “She’s having strong emotions and I want to welcome those, but I don’t want to accommodate the yes/nos. I tell her after the first one that I won’t accommodate.”

So when we say, I’m not going to do this if you change your mind again, that makes sense, right? And it’s honest. The only problem is, it’s talking to her reasonable side of her brain to say that. Well, if you do that again, then I’m not going to give you this. Maybe that works if our child is in a reasonable state of mind, but when they’re upset like this, that is a misconnection. It’s talking to a part of her that isn’t able to listen. That can feel even worse to a child than they already feel when they’re upset. Obviously that’s not what we’re intending, but they feel like we’re not really seeing them and what they need right then.

So instead of talking about it that way, hopefully we can breathe and understand this is normal for children to go through these meltdowns and emotional states. And that we are safe, and we can be that safe person for them. So we’re calming ourselves. We can hear that voice inside us say, Oh, she’s not in a reasonable state of mind, so she can’t make the choice probably. So maybe stick with one of the choices and don’t give her another. So saying that to yourself, rather than to her.

And what that would look like is, this parent says, despite begging for a hug, “I know if I do, she’ll scream and demand that I give her space.” So mostly when children are really upset and kind of flailing like this —and the parent calls it “pushing away, the risk of throwing, crying, begging me to come close, but then insisting on space if I do”— mostly when children are in these meltdown states, a hug is not going to help or reach them. And so I would have that in mind too.

But then knowing her child as she does, she knows that she will ask for the opposite. So I would give her the space, just being there for her without touching her. And if she says, I want a hug as part of that meltdown, that’s part of those feelings. She probably doesn’t even know what she’s saying there, much less meaning what she’s saying. So look at her, hear her. You want a hug, and then you push me away and you want me to go away. Maybe you even say that. Or maybe you just say this to yourself and you nod your head, looking at her with empathy and soft eyes and safety.

So you know all this information, but you don’t need to try to change her mind because you’re not going to. She’s stuck where she’s stuck.

That’s what I would do with any choice that children are trying to make or have us make in these situations. Sometimes children have even asked me, I want water, water!, and, I’m thirsty. But if we wait for a moment, because if we brought them that water, they’d probably hit the glass away or not be able to drink it. They’re not in that calm state yet, and they will be there sooner the more that we accept and hold space for these feelings to pass.

This parent says, “I don’t want to accommodate the yes/nos.” Absolutely, don’t accommodate. Make the safe choice as a parent and welcome her to feel what she feels about it. Because the more you welcome this with open arms, well, not literally arms, but rolling out the red carpet for her to feel this, the more quickly and easily she’ll pass through it.

One other thing this parent says is, “Am I feeding this behavior in some way?” I think the only thing that she’s doing is maybe a little bit misreading what she can say in these moments, or what her daughter will understand. And really trusting this more, finding more decisiveness in herself about her role in these moments.

This parent also says something about, “take her in her room and ride it out with her.” But this idea of riding things out with our child is, in a way, giving it too much, I don’t want to say attention, but making too much of an event out of it. Instead, I would be there for her, keeping her safe. You’re waiting it out with her, but I would wait it out as the anchor in her storm, not riding the waves with her. That is going to drain a parent and make it much harder for them the rest of the day. So it’s really more helpful to both of us to be in our role as this separate person who trusts our child to be in these states. And we help them when they need help getting from point A to point B, but it’s not our job to make this better or ride it along with them.

If we have to go do something or we want to go do something, we can do it, holding out that same space for the feelings and trusting them. Children can sense sometimes when we’re kind of feeling it with them or we’re impatient or we’re telling them things that really are best kept in our own minds and hearts.

When she’s done, then we can talk. But I wouldn’t go over it with, Well, this is why I didn’t hug you, because you changed your mind and all that. Unless she says something like, Why didn’t you hug me?, I wouldn’t bring that up. We don’t need to remind them of how out of control they were.

And then I really feel what this parent said: “It’s such a frustrating place because there’s no winning, especially when it’s bedtime.” Yes, bedtime is going to be the hardest time and the hardest time for us to let go if she’s not in the happiest mood. Yeah, it’s not about winning. It’s about the comfort that we feel in our role as the loving adult in the room.

I hope some of this helps. I go into these topics much more clearly and deeply, and I actually demonstrate the countenance that I describe here for helping to co-regulate with our children and allow them to process their feelings in my new No Bad Kids Master Course. You can read all about at nobadkidscourse.com.

And please check out some of my other podcasts on my website, janetlansbury.com. They’re all indexed by subject and category, so you should be able to find whatever topic you might be interested in.

Both of my books are available in paperback at Amazon, No Bad Kids: Toddler Discipline Without Shame, and Elevating Child Care: A Guide to Respectful Parenting. You can get them in e-book at Amazon, Apple, Google Play, or barnesandnoble.com and in audio at audible.com. And you can even get a free audio copy of either book at Audible by following the LINK in the liner notes of this podcast.

Thanks so much for listening. We can do this.

The post Let Kids Choose… Except When They Can’t appeared first on Janet Lansbury.

Transcript of “Balancing the Needs of More Than One Child (with Erica Orosco Cruz)”

Hi, this is Janet Lansbury, welcome to Unruffled. Today, I’m very excited to share a guest with you, Erica Orosco Cruz. I’ve known and admired Erica for many years. We both studied with Magda Gerber. She’s also a RIE certified educator. She’s been in early childhood since she was a teenager and she, 20 years ago, founded Homeschool Garden, which is a childcare center, preschool/kindergarten for children ages one to six years old. Erica’s also a mother and she’s used Magda Gerber‘s approach with her children. I’m really looking forward to hearing Erica share her experiences and wisdom for parents or professionals who want to care for more than one child with respect.

Hi, Erica. Welcome and thank you so much for being here.

Erica Orosco Cruz:  Hi Janet. I’m so happy to be here. It’s great to hear your voice .

Janet Lansbury:  And yours, and by the way, congratulations on your 20-year anniversary of the founding of Homeschool Garden. That’s amazing.

Erica Orosco Cruz:  I know, it crept up on us.

Janet Lansbury:  What an accomplishment and I love your mission statement, “To provide a safe environment where parents and children can learn and grow together. We believe that when children are truly seen and heard and parents learn to see with new eyes and listen for what is unsaid, families flourish.”

With new eyes is the way Magda Gerber asked us to see infants. It’s so true, isn’t it?

Erica Orosco Cruz:  It is. I learned so much from Magda. She’s right up there with my grandma as far as mentors and women in my life that really guided me. And yeah, I couldn’t rephrase it in a different way. It’s so clear and it gives people a great perspective.

Janet Lansbury:  So you said your grandmother, does this mean you were raised with this kind of respectful approach?

Erica Orosco Cruz:  I want to say she was the one that truly saw me and she was so attentive to all her grandchildren. Unfortunately, I only had her for the first four years of my life. She ended up passing from breast cancer. But I am proof of how they always say the first five years are so important. She left such a lasting mark in my life that I am the person I am today because of her.

Janet Lansbury:  Was she a primary caregiver for you?

Erica Orosco Cruz:  She was when my mother returned to work when I was one. And she was the matriarch of our family.

Janet Lansbury:  Wow. And then how did you end up starting a preschool and being a consultant for parents and doing these courses that you teach? How did this all come about?

Erica Orosco Cruz:  Yeah, I don’t think that was ever my intention. I joyfully worked with children since I was 15. I was volunteering in daycare centers and I was a camp counselor and a teacher assistant, various avenues of work in early childhood and I really enjoyed it.

I actually came across the RIE Philosophy, the RIE Manual, in an early childhood course for infants and toddlers. And I was fascinated by it. I had never read anything like it, it was so different from what I experienced, even working in the field already. It was so different from what I experienced and I loved it. As an 18-year-old learning this for the first time, I said: This is great, but you can’t really do this with children.

Janet Lansbury:  What do you mean?

Erica Orosco Cruz:  Well, you couldn’t talk to children where they would understand. You couldn’t not teach them. You would have to teach them how to do things, teach them to sit up. It was so different.

Janet Lansbury:  Yeah, this idea that they are coming into the world as people with their own abilities and can be treated like an aware person. I know it was shocking for me too when I first learned this.

Erica Orosco Cruz:  Yeah. And so I had that experience in school. And then a couple of years later, as I finished up my education, I was looking for employment and I came across a center that actually had sought out Magda Gerber for some consulting: Glendale Adventist Medical Center. They have childcare onsite for their employees. And I went there for an interview and the director, who was a very tall woman, over six feet, was giving me a tour of the location.

“Here’s our pre-K room. Here’s our preschool room. Here’s where the two-year-old toddlers are. Here we’re going to go into the toddler and infant space.” And it was very reminiscent of Magda Gerber’s space. They had an outdoor deck, there was a door that was propped open that the children could go in and out of.

When we walked in, we both saw an infant about 8 to 10 months old. She was sitting up on her own, and we saw her pick up a leaf and she put it in her mouth. And then what came next is what was so different. The director walked over to her, she squatted down in a kneeling position, and she even tilted her head so that her eyes were at eye level with the infant. And she said, “I saw you put a leaf in your mouth,” and she waited. And then she put her hand out and she said, “I’d like it now.” And the young infant opened up her mouth, stuck out her tongue and the director plucked the leaf off of her tongue.

Janet Lansbury:  Wow.

Erica Orosco Cruz:  Yeah. What was that? And it was so different. I expected her to run over to the infant, scoop up the infant in her arms and then stick her finger in the infant’s mouth to get the leaf. And that was not what happened at all.

I even asked the director, “What is that? What did you do?” And that’s when she talked about the RIE Philosophy again. And so seeing it in action, I was like, “I want to learn more, whatever that is. I want to learn more of that.”

Janet Lansbury:  Right, it totally stands out as just so different from the way our society treats children and the way that most of us instinctively would treat a baby.

So you studied with Magda and some of the other wonderful mentors at Resources for Infant Educators, and then you started teaching, right? You started teaching parent-infant classes and parent-toddler classes. And then at some point 20 years ago, you decided to start Homeschool Garden and care for groups of children.

Erica Orosco Cruz:  Yes. I had a then five-year-old and two-year-old and had been teaching classes and was looking for a school for them. I didn’t find one that where I was seeing that they were respected, seeing that they were taken care of in a way that I wanted them to be cared for and so Homeschool Garden was born.

Janet Lansbury:  So you decided I’m just going to do it myself.

Erica Orosco Cruz:  I was determined that there was a space for that and that other families are also looking for that as well, and 20 years later, here we are.

Janet Lansbury:  Wow. And this is actually one of the reasons I especially wanted you on the podcast. There are a lot of reasons because you have so much wisdom that you’ve gathered through all this work with children that you’ve done over the years, your own children, how many do you have now?

Erica Orosco Cruz:  I have 4: 25, 23, 14, he just turned 14 and then a two-year-old as well.

Janet Lansbury:  Quite a spread. That must be such an education in itself. And then your Homeschool Garden is a mixed age group, right?

Erica Orosco Cruz:  Yes. Our youngest right now is actually my granddaughter who is nine months old.

Janet Lansbury:  Oh my gosh.

Erica Orosco Cruz:  Yeah. And then we go up all the way to six years.

Janet Lansbury:  How wonderful. Well, so many parents and professionals ask me, “How can this approach work, how can you respect a baby or respect any age child (the way you talked about respecting that baby with the leaf), when you’ve got twins, triplets siblings, or groups of children? How do you give them that respect? How do you handle their behaviors?”

And what I often don’t get the chance to explain, in fact, I rarely get the chance to explain is that this approach is actually geared for caring for groups of children, because much of it was developed as you know, by Pediatrician Emmi Pikler in an orphanage setting where the ratio was one caregiver to nine babies or toddlers. And most of us, at least as parents, are dealing with a better ratio than that.

Through those respectful care practices that Pikler developed and then Magda Gerber developed further, they had remarkably positive outcomes for institutional care, unheard of outcomes where these people grew up to be typical in wanting to have relationships, wanting to have children, things that just don’t usually happen in an institutional setting. So it works. And you have had all this practical experience putting that into action and developing your own ways of giving attention to all the children and giving them what they need, taking care of their needs so that they can flourish. That’s what I want to hear more about.

Erica Orosco Cruz:  Even when we have licensing people come out or physical therapists or people that have a variety of the experience of childcare and different locations, they come here and they sense right away this is different. We are not trying to micromanage the children’s time or what they’re doing. We are really giving the opportunity for them to play freely. And when we have routines like snack or a transition into the program, or a transition of getting picked up, or even a transition to go wash hands, we’re doing that with individual time and respect. And so those visitors, even when we have parents observing, are in awe of how it all flows. And I, 100% attribute that to the RIE Philosophy. The idea of children being an active participant in their care, the safe environment that we create, the consistency of our routines.

I often will tell parents who have twins or more than one child that you have to be even more RIE so that you can create that kind of environment and that flow and ease of being with your children.

Janet Lansbury:  Right, that’s what I feel too. And finding that time for self-care in all of that as well. It’s even more important that you put that oxygen mask on first when you’ve got the challenge of multiple children to take care of.

Erica Orosco Cruz:  And I think something that was very different for me going through the RIE Program as a parent was that I was a single mom, a single mom of two young children. So I got to apply this practice every day. And when I had my second son and my three-year-old was demanding of my time and my attention, okay, how can I be here for both of them? How can I be present? What would that look like?

For me, it’s really about having one-on-one time with each child, even if in a group care setting. If that means that’s the potty break that’s happening. If that means it’s the diaper change. If that means it’s a child who wakes up late and everyone else has finished snack. And so this child has one-on-one time with the caregiver having snack, then that’s how it happens.

Janet Lansbury:  Well, somebody actually asked a question about that on a comment on one of my Facebook posts recently, it’s actually a podcast post “Damage Control When We Feel Like We’re Failing,” and it’s talking about multiple children. So I had brought up the study by Sherry Turkle about the way that children feel when the phone or the tech device takes the parents’ attention at any time, they get a text message and they go or whatever. I had shared a study about that in the podcast. And this parent said:

“What if that something is not your phone, but your other children, because I feel like this happens constantly? I’ve read your words on being present for the “wants something time,” and being there during caregiving moments. And I try, but I’m with one, and there are two other children in a similar state needing help. I’m doing someone’s hair and from across the house, someone else is screaming for me to help them on the toilet. I’m just sitting down to color with one and another has spilled their drink all over the floor. There seem to be so many interruptions that I feel this is the sense that I give to my kids: that I can always be taken away. And on the other side, I try to give “needs nothing time,” (I think she’s referring to “Wants nothing quality time,” Magda’s term)… and make time to be present and play. But what ends up happening is they all try to play with me individually at the same time. It normally ends with frustration because no one is getting what they want.”

Erica Orosco Cruz:  Yes, I can relate to all of that.

Sportscasting. Sportscasting is huge. “I’m coloring with your sister right now. I hear you’re asking for help on the potty. You may have to wait until I’m done using my red color.”

I always want to be sportscasting so that each child knows where my attention is. I had a three-year-old and a three-month-old and I was spending all my time focused on both of them at the same time, where I didn’t have any individual time with them. And so instead of bathing them both at the same time, I had decided that I would have my one-on-one time with them each by bathing them separately.

So I started with my three-year-old and would bathe him. And at that moment, sometimes my three-and-a-half-month-old would cry and would want attention. And I would remain with my three-year-old as I was sportscasting to my three-and-a-half-month-old, “I hear you, Jacob. I’m bathing Andrew right now. And when I’m done, then I can be with you.”

As my three-year-old started to hear that over and over — that I was choosing to stay with him as his brother was calling for my attention, it then became the three-year-old that said, “I’m okay, mom, you can go check on Jacob right now.” The baby was just outside the bathroom door, laying down on the rug, and the three-year-old was within arm’s reach of the bathtub. But it was the understanding and the empathy that he was developing by me being present and staying with one child at a time.

Janet Lansbury:  Right. They both get a positive message from that. They get the message that even if he’s getting the attention now, I’m going to get my own version of full attention at some point, too, instead of nobody’s ever getting it all the way.

Erica Orosco Cruz:  Yes. And trying to meet everybody’s need at the exact same time.

Janet Lansbury:  Right.

Erica Orosco Cruz:  We have a new child that’s transitioning in. And before I get up and leave the space, I let him know I’m going to be going to the kitchen and getting some dishes and I’ll be back. And he may toddle behind me and follow me in that direction.

When I come back, I let him know: “I’m going to be serving lunch right now. You can come sit down.”

The other children are like, “I want agua,” because we’re a bilingual school, asking for more water. And I’ll say, “I’m helping this child right now. And when I’m done helping this child, then I can start serving water,” sportscasting whose attention I have right now.

Janet Lansbury:  Yes. But what if that other child doesn’t accept this gracefully at all and has the impulse to go and do something destructive with another child or with something in the room or scream really, really loudly? How do you handle it when it’s not easy like that?

Erica Orosco Cruz:  So one of the things I recommend not only to my staff but to caregivers and parents is to have an environment that supports you. So when I am going to the kitchen, I am bringing actually a basket full of every single thing that I’m going to need. We’ve got extra plates, we’ve got the extra napkins, we’ve got extra silverware, extra glasses. Everything is in one space. And so when I put it down near the children that are sitting at child-sized tables and stools, it is again within arms reach. So I can put my hand over it. If a child is like, “I don’t want to wait. I’m just going to grab a glass,” or, “I’m going to reach for the water pitcher,” everything’s within arms reach of me so that I can put my hand over it and say, “I’m not offering that right now.”

And I would repeat, “I’m still helping so-and-so sit down, and then I can serve you water.” And I even point to my ear, “I hear you, I hear you asking for water. I want to remind you that I’m going to help this friend to the table first.”

And I’m pausing. I’m not reacting. There’s not a big reaction from me so I get to set the tone. I’m not going to amplify it. I don’t need to yell. I don’t need to move quickly because I’ve created an environment that supports me right along with Magda Gerber’s example of a safe environment.

Janet Lansbury:  Also I’ve got to believe that the fact you’re not getting triggered, well, it’s a lot of practice, but the way that you’re perceiving that it’s normal for children to do those things…  it’s normal for them to object when they’re not getting what they want. It’s not a bad sign that you’re doing something wrong and that you’ve got to fix something and everybody’s unhappy and that’s going to rock you. It’s a mentality of normalizing a lot of things, our perceptions, our expectations.

Erica Orosco Cruz:  Yes. So as soon as the children arrive, they get either sun hats or beanies, depending on the weather, and a child who’s been here for five years and their routine is the same (we’ve always gotten a hat), I still will remind them, I’ll be touching my head: “It’s time for you to get a hat now.” Just as if it was a child who’s only been here for three months.

So it’s not the expectation of, well, they should know, they’ve been here for five years or we’ve been doing this for three months. It’s with the understanding of, there are a lot of stimuli. And I don’t know if they got the breakfast that they wanted or if the parent that they wanted to see in the morning is the parent that woke up. I don’t know how their day is and I just want to be supportive in any way that I can.

Janet Lansbury:  That reminds me… It’s almost like a literal version of a touchpoint, that you’re giving the children just those little moments. Even that’s a moment of attention that you’re giving solely to that child. It just lasts for one second, but it matters because you’re connecting right there and saying: I see you and I’m here to help you. I’m here to remind you and help you. Not be angry with you for not getting it, but to show you that I’m here caring for you as well.

So it doesn’t take as much energy as I think we sometimes believe it might, to give a child that feeling of being seen and being cared about in a small way.

One of the common issues parents have and I remember this being an issue for me, is that they need to put their baby to sleep, and their toddler, or in my case, it was a four-year-old, is not able to be quiet in the area because they can’t control their impulses at that time. So, therefore, they’re disrupting and they’re making it pretty much impossible for that baby to fall asleep and for you to have a little bedtime moment nursing or whatever it is at bedtime. And then you ask the child to leave the room and then they’re screaming outside the door, crying, and you feel terrible as a parent that you’re abandoning them and neglecting them. How would you handle a situation like that?

Erica Orosco Cruz:  Janet, I think it goes back to being able to give the children grace. That’s normal, they’re tired, they’re wanting your full attention. They don’t want you to be separated from them. But I wouldn’t be able to give that grace to the child unless I was giving that grace to myself too.

Janet Lansbury:  Giving yourself that grace of…

Erica Orosco Cruz:  It may not be perfect. I might unravel just as quickly as the other child or it might feel rushed. I might have both of the babies in my arms at that time. So knowing that it doesn’t have to be perfect every day and being able to give myself that grace.

But I want to be able to meet both of the child’s needs. Okay, how can I do that, if I’m thinking about it? Okay, the youngest one I would like to put to bed early so that I can spend the time with my four-year-old or older child. How can I do that? Oh, okay, does that mean that I move up one child’s bedtime an hour earlier, instead of just 30 minutes earlier? Maybe I don’t need to put the child completely asleep. Maybe I just need to feed the child, burp the child, put the younger child in the crib while I go and sing songs, have a cuddle, have a story time with the older child, and then come back to the other child, the younger child if he’s not asleep.

I’m always trying to think of possibilities. What are other possibilities? So that it’s not just, I need to do this, because that rigidity, the rigidity of it has to be done this way or they’re calling me, so I need to go over there, even though I’m being here in this moment.

I remember being that parent: it has to be this way and not giving myself that grace of, I can take a breath and then I can go attend to that child that needs me.

Janet Lansbury:  Right. Or we can have a very messy moment here, it’s not going to be smooth. Which is most of the time, especially if you have more than one child, it’s hardly ever everybody’s just perfectly content. Those moments happen and then you’re wondering, Oh gosh, I’ve got to pinch myself here. I must be dreaming.

I think getting used to that it’s going to be… And also for that older child, that’s the moment where maybe all that envy and jealousy and feeling about having this new child in their life, this new child in the family is coming to the fore right there and it’s spilling over and it’s getting expressed and in a way that’s such a positive, healthy thing.

And we can acknowledge and help someone feel heard, even outside of a door. You can help someone to feel that you care about them and love them, even if they’re not right there with you.

I think that’s another thing with caring for children in groups or caring for multiple children in a family. Yes, it’s nice when a child is having a feeling and we can just drop everything and be just with that feeling. But oftentimes, when there’s more than one child, it doesn’t happen that way, and we have to find ways to accept feelings and encourage children to share feelings with us, without us stopping everything for that to happen.

Erica Orosco Cruz:  Yeah. Even if they’re on the other side of the door. If you’re going to the bathroom and there’s a two-year-old demanding your attention and the door is closed, you can still, even then, “I hear you, you’re wanting me to be present with you and I’m taking care of myself right now.” Whatever that might be.

Janet Lansbury:  Right and unplugging that thing in us that’s like, I can’t relax. This again comes from expectations and perceptions of what it means when children behave like this. It’s not a bad thing that’s going on. It’s not a negative thing. It’s very healthy for children to feel: sometimes I don’t get what I want. My life is a flow of feelings and it’s not this static — I always feel a certain way. I always feel calm and happy or just calm and settled. It can be ALL those things. And that’s healthy for children to experience. It happens naturally when we, as you said, kind of prioritize one child or even ourselves sometimes.

Erica Orosco Cruz:  And when they’re receiving the focused attention at some other part during the day, I can even bring that: “I remember when you were pounding on the door when I was in the bathroom and here I am, I’m all yours now. We can go and read your story. Now my time is with you.”

Janet Lansbury:  Yeah. “And that was so hard for you. I could hear how hard that was. You didn’t like that.”

Another practical example people need help with is let’s say… Well, actually I did a post recently, just a little post on Instagram, about transitions and helping a child to leave something, like the park. It could be also leaving daycare or leaving childcare or school or some other situation or a play date with a friend. The child is having difficulty in that transition as children often do. They’re getting overwhelmed and they’re getting dysregulated. And how can we respectfully help them to get from point A to point B? They’re not usually able to be given a lot of choices then or whatever. They’re not in a reasonable frame of mind and they really need help. So I had a post about this and somebody said, “Well, what if there are two children and they’re both running in different directions when you try to help them. What do you do if everybody’s running away?”

Erica Orosco Cruz:  Again, creating that safe environment for yourself, a supportive environment.

So if I have two children and there is a possibility that they might run in different directions, I maybe bring a wagon to the park so that I can corral them into a space, so that I don’t have to carry two children out of the park.

I also like to talk about routines and consistency. So one of the things that we used to do with my children when we would go to the park is that: “Before we leave the park, we will go on the swings. And when we are done with the swings, then we’re going to go to the car.” So they may ask for the swing earlier in the park visit. And I would remind them, “We do that before we leave.” And so they would go off and play again.

And then when I was getting ready to or it was time for us to leave, “Okay, we’re going to be getting ready to leave so I can offer the swing now.” So they got into the routine of Oh when we go in the swings, that means we’re going to leave, and it would be pretty much smooth sailing.

So again, when we take a group of children to the park or another visit: What kind of cues can I give them? What can I let them know? So when we start to put our shoes back on, that’s going to be time for us to leave, and we’re reminding them of that as we arrive at the location. “When we get our shoes back on, we’re going to be leaving.” And shortly before we’re leaving, “Okay it’s almost time for us to get our shoes on. And then we will be leaving right after that.”

So lots of physical cues. If I’m at a friend’s house and my children have come along, “When I go get our jackets from the other room, it’ll be time for us to leave.” “When I put my dishes on the counter, it’s going to be time for us to leave.” So I’m trying to give them physical, not only visual cues, which is super helpful.

And then there are times where they’re tired and they’ve had tons of fun and they don’t want to leave. Now you’re dealing with a tired child who might be throwing a fit. You can give them all the cues and they’re still not participating. So it’s, “You may walk to the car or I may pick you up and take you to the car,” pausing and waiting, giving them every opportunity that you can, that they will participate. And then it’s, “I see that you’re not walking, so I’m going to pick you up and carry you to the car.”

Janet Lansbury:  I love that idea of the transitional activities, sort of like a bedtime routine, where once the child is in that activity, they’re already feeling themselves getting ready to leave, or they’re feeling themselves getting ready to go to sleep because they’ve associated that activity with the next activity or the next situation that’s going to happen. That’s brilliant. I actually haven’t heard of that before and I love it.

Erica Orosco Cruz: There have also been times where we’ve had an “after RIE class.” So a class for children that are over two years. And I remember we were wrapping up class, the volume was going louder and the parents are in the class going, “Oh no. How is this going to unfold?” The children were running around in the indoor space. And I got out a box of silks and I just slowly folded them. And the energy slowly shifted into much calmer. Some of the children started joining me. But it’s so much about being the calm in the eye of the storm of just being present and slowing down. I don’t need to raise my volume. I don’t need to stand up and lift my arms. I don’t need to react to what’s going on in front of me. I just need to know where I want to go. “Do I want to bring the energy down? Okay, I can do that. How can I do that? What are the tools that I can have? Is it sweeping? Is it raking? Is it something that I can do, repetitive and calming as well?”

Janet Lansbury:  Do you ever get wound up and you feel like: Okay, I’m getting wound up. What am I going to do? I’m going to breathe, or whatever it is. Do you have a self-dialogue that you do at all or imagery?

Erica Orosco Cruz:  I even talk it out loud with the children. Say they’re moving their bodies precariously on something. I might go, “I’m watching. I’m not sure about that. I may come closer.”

So it’s not even in my head, it’s just something oral. And I’m saying it out loud and they’re like: Oh, what does that mean? She’s watching, what are we doing that’s bringing her attention to it?

Or I might say, “I’m coming closer,” when I’m getting behavior that’s out of the norm and screaming and amplified and they’re having a good time, but I’m not sure about it. So I’ll go, “I’m not sure. I’m going to come closer.” And so I’m checking in with them, but I’m also checking in with myself. Is this something I’m okay with? This is something I’m not okay with. Well, let me get closer. Maybe I can be closer and feel more comfortable with what they’re climbing on.

We had a parent that came in and was volunteering, but was very fluent with the language that we use: “I’m not sure, I’m coming closer.” And I remember at the end of the day, one of the staff members says, “She’s not sure about a lot of things.” And I thought that was so great because at least she was vocalizing it for uncertainty with the children and with the staff. So I was happy. That made me laugh.

Janet Lansbury:  Yeah. It’s always better to put it out there because children are feeling that, they’re feeling that trepidation or that discomfort a little bit in the person. And then it’s kind of scary if they don’t hear somebody put words to what’s going on with them. So, it really helps to calm children even just to be that honest about what’s going on with us, cluing them in. It also helps model a process for them, for themselves: I’m not sure about standing on that rock. So let me think about it. Okay, I’m going to try putting one foot up. Not that they would verbalize that, but they might internalize that kind of dialogue.

Erica Orosco Cruz:  Yes. And its familiar language. So even the other children might say, “I’m not sure about that,” when they’re referring to another child.

Janet Lansbury:  Yeah. I love that. That’s so great.

What else do I want to ask you about… What about the conflicts between children? What about when they’re using unkind words or being unkind or they’re being physically unsafe or maybe they’re fighting over toys? What kind of responses do you have to those things?

Erica Orosco Cruz:  I feel like it’s the same responses when we’re in a RIE class and it’s infants exploring each other’s bodies and things like that. And the same thing with the preschool or a child who has a whole lot more language. One of the words that we use often is “ouch,” if we see something that’s rough or hear something that’s rough, or if it’s unkind words. So we come closer, we sportscast, “I saw that you were both holding onto it. Ouch, that’s rough when you’re pulling on someone’s hair,” or “Ouch, that was rough how you said, give it to me.”

So we are still sportscasting, even with children who have a full round of language because they still are centering on themself and what they desire instead of really looking at the other child who may have that same desire. And so that’s where the sportscasting still comes into play. And it’s so helpful, especially with siblings who have varying degrees of language and comprehension of what’s going on.

Janet Lansbury:  But you stop some of the behaviors, right?

Erica Orosco Cruz:  Yes. We are definitely putting our hand in there to make sure everybody’s safe. We intervene if there are children that are being rough with each other, or if they’re being rough with an object, like a toy, or even — we have some chickens here — if they’re being rough with themselves even. We’re intervening, putting our hands in the path where they could do harm, and still continuing the sportscasting. “I may hold onto that car, I see that you’re both pushing. I’m going to make sure that you’re both safe.”

Janet Lansbury:  But you’re allowing them to resolve the conflict if possible by themselves. And at what point would you decide that they can’t be in this conflict or they’re not able to be here right now, or I need to pull them aside, how would you do that?

Erica Orosco Cruz:  Sometimes we will stop the harm from happening. And then it may be, we can be in that space with them and see how it unfolds. “Okay, I’m going to have you stay close to me, but you’re still going after that person. Okay, I’m going to have us move into a different space.” So that there’s a clear boundary of what’s okay and what’s not okay. Yes, it’s okay to struggle over a toy or want to be sitting on the same stool or to have conflict is natural, but to be forceful with someone’s body, that’s a hard boundary.

Janet Lansbury:  Absolutely. But you’re still not judging the child as a bad child or shameful or anything. Yeah-

Erica Orosco Cruz:  Definitely not.

Janet Lansbury:  That’s the key to so much. Our reactions are what make certain behaviors repeat or make things a “thing.” Like children running away from us when they’re supposed to do something, it’s often because of the way that we’ve reacted to that in the past or the way that we’ve been judgmental.

Erica Orosco Cruz:  Here on site with the staff, it’s like okay, what is that behavior desiring? Is that child wanting to play with those children? We see them knocking down a structure that the other children built with blocks, but does that need mean that they want to be playing? Okay, how can we facilitate that? What is behind the behavior? What is the need that’s trying to be met?

Janet Lansbury:  Right. And sometimes it’s the opposite. This child is trying to get some space if it’s too stimulating for this child to be this close to these children. So they’re pushing, hitting them.

Erica Orosco Cruz:  You can’t discover that unless you’re observing. Because if you’re in it and you’re like oh, I’m constantly having to stop this child from pushing friends away from them. And you’re not observing… Okay, what happened before? Okay, what was happening earlier in the day? If you’re not trying to figure out through observation what’s unfolding, then you’re not going to be able to see it. And then I would say, then you would move towards the labels or you would get frustrated or you would say: Oh, not again.

Janet: Lansbury. Yes, and that’s such a cornerstone of Magda Gerber’s approach: sensitive observation of children and it really makes a difference. I’ve noticed when I’ve been able to go into a preschool because a parent maybe asked me to assess their child for something. I’ll be the one that gets to observe because the other teachers are sometimes busy and I’ll see everything — how things went down and what really happened. And you learn a lot about each child just in a short amount of time. It’s really, really powerful.

But how do you do that if you’re the parent with a bunch of children? How do you carve out that observation time? You learn to not get involved in their play for one thing, so that becomes observation time.

Erica Orosco Cruz:  And then you get curious. Okay. I was putting the groceries away and a child said something to me, but I continued to put the groceries away, and then all of a sudden there was spilled milk on the floor. Oh, did I miss that opportunity where they were asking for help pouring the milk? What could I have done? Could I have set the groceries aside and maybe the child could’ve helped with the groceries away and then I could have served milk?

It really goes to the curiosity that children instinctively have, that we often lose because we’re just trying to find the answer.

Janet Lansbury:  Right. So it’s not really observation in the sense of the way we do in the classes, which is where we’re actually sitting and observing. We’re reflecting more on what just happened, so that’s another way of learning the way observation teaches us.

We can also learn by actually being open to… which always has to start with self-compassion and non-self-judgment, I think. But reflecting on: Oh, there’s a reason this happened with my child and the reason is not my fault, I’m bad or that they’re terrible, that I’ve done a terrible job with them, that they’re not a good person. None of those are ever the reason. The reason is something else. So to let go of all those other things so that we can love ourselves and have peace with ourselves enough to be open to what it really is, I guess, is what you’re saying.

Erica Orosco Cruz:  That’s what I call grace, to give yourself some grace.

Janet Lansbury:  I love that. Wow. What a gift you are.

So you consult with parents, you coach parents, all of that information’s on your website and you have online classes as well?

Erica Orosco Cruz:  We do. We have online classes for parents, we weekly come together. And what we receive, Janet, is like when we were in class with Magda, the decompression of: Now I get to reflect.  Or, where can I fit in this observation time? Or as Magda used to say, “What are your three wishes?” And by asking that question, it really opens you up to: What is the possibility? How could this be different?

Being a mother is no easy feat. Being a caregiver of multiple children is no easy feat, but when we have a love and a curiosity for it, it gives us a lot of opportunities to be able to shift, to try different things.

Janet Lansbury:  Right. What do I need? I feel like you’re saying. That’s what Magda was saying. She was saying, “If the good fairy could come and give you a wish or three wishes, what would they be?” And what she was saying was: Think about what you need.

Erica Orosco Cruz:  Yes, because we teach ourselves first. So if we’re frustrated or tired or not taking care of ourselves, that’s what we’re modeling for our children.

Janet Lansbury:   This is wonderful. Thank you so much, Erica. I’ll be linking to all your information in the notes of this podcast. And then in the transcript, which will be posted on my website. I wish you had been my preschool teacher and I may have wished you were my mother too, at some point. You exude that grace that you’re talking about, you really do.

Oh, there’s this video of you, if it’s still on YouTube of you helping your son brush his teeth, and goodness, that alone, is worth a million words. Is that still available?

Erica Orosco Cruz:  It is.

Janet Lansbury:  Okay, great. I’ll include that in the transcript as well. Wonderful. Thank you so much. And you have a beautiful day. I’m thrilled you’re out there helping so many people, so many parents, so many children to give themselves grace.

Erica Orosco Cruz:  Thank you. This went by so fast. I’m so grateful that we got to do it.

Janet Lansbury: Me too. All right, take care, my friend.

Erica Orosco Cruz:  Bye.

Please check out the wonderful resources Erica offers at http://homeschoolgardensite.com

And HERE’s Erica’s toothbrushing video on YouTube, it’s worth watching!

Also, please check some of my other podcasts on my website janetlansbury.com. There are 200-and-something of them at this point and they’re all indexed by subject and category so you should be able to find whatever topic you might be interested in. And I have two books, they’re available at Amazon: No Bad Kids, Toddler Discipline Without Shame and Elevating Child Care, A Guide To Respectful Parenting.  You can get them in eBook at Amazon, Apple, Google Play, or barnesandnoble.com, and in audio at Audible.com. Actually, you can get a free audio copy of either book at Audible by following the link in the liner notes of this podcast.

Thank you so much for listening and for all your kind support. We can do this.

The post Balancing the Needs of More Than One Child (with Erica Orosco Cruz) appeared first on Janet Lansbury.

For a deep and complete understanding of ALL these points and much, much more, check out Janet’s No Bad Kids Course.

Transcript of “7 Daily Reminders for Parents”

Hi, this is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled. I recently received an email from a parent who I thought had a great suggestion for me and I’m going to follow that suggestion now, or do my best to at least. She asked if I could do an episode on general reminders as you start your parenting day. She said she wishes she could cut snippets out of episodes to listen to on repeat. So she thought it would be great for me to do a daily snippet. That’s what I’m going to do. I actually have seven, so that’s one for each day of the week, but they’re all for all days of the week, of course. I’m going to explain why these are recommendations of mine, and I’ll probably make a list up in the transcript or somewhere where you can easily copy/paste or put it on your refrigerator.

Again, thank you to this parent for your brilliant idea for these daily reminders. You’ll notice as we go that these seven reminders overlap, compliment, and support each other.

I’m going to start with:

1) Let the feelings be.

If you listen here, you hear me say this all the time because it’s really a lifelong challenge for a lot of us. The reason we do this is that feelings come and go. We don’t control them. What we want our children to learn is that it’s okay to feel whatever they feel. We’re not going to let them act on a lot of those feelings, of course, that’s our job. But we want our child to share. We want to know what’s going on with them.

Even if it’s something painful for us to hear, it’s better that they share it than not share it. Better not only for the quality of our relationship and our child’s sense of self and acceptance of self but even in a practical sense, it helps us. Because when children can’t express the feeling they’re more likely to do so through concerning behavior: hitting, lashing out, throwing things, saying things in really unkind ways, escalating. Or on the other hand, they might start to suppress these feelings that they have because they feel that these are unacceptable and that there’s something wrong with them. And that creates a lot of issues that we want to avoid.

So “let the feelings be” applies to the most minor feelings a child expresses all the way to a full-on meltdown. In all these cases, we want to remember that it’s safe, it’s positive, and that we can trust our child to share whatever it is. Without us pushing back on it, without trying to fix it, talk them out of it or scold them for expressing it. Instead being curious and open, so that we can learn more and understand our child and help them to feel better just by listening, just by allowing them to feel heard.

So let’s say our child says, “I don’t like this shirt today” and we know that’s our child’s favorite shirt usually, and everything in us wants to say “What do you mean? That’s your favorite shirt” or “Okay, well, here’s another shirt. How about this shirt?” Instead, we could let the feelings be by saying “Oh, you’re not liking that today. I wonder what’s going on with that? What about it don’t you like?” Just giving it that openness, having that attitude of Huh. Well, that’s interesting. I want to know more.

That’s how we connect and help our child to feel close to us, safe with us, and to be able to share what’s in their heart, or in their mind, rather than holding it in.

Okay. Number two:

2) Acknowledge

When our child is expressing something, even if it’s something that’s scary to us, “I hate my sister” or “I hate my mom,” instead of pushing back, we’re going to trust that sharing it is much more positive than not sharing it. We can’t do anything to make that feeling disappear — that’s not in our child’s power, it’s not in our power. So we want is to acknowledge, “Your sister’s really upsetting you. What’s going on with that” or “You really didn’t like what mom did, it sounds like.”

We’re not going to try to say too much. We’re just going to let our child know that we are open to them. That we hear them, that we want to know.

The misconception that people sometimes have is that if they just say this acknowledgment, then they’re saying something that’s going to make it better. Now, sometimes that’s true, but other times it can upset our child because we might be saying the words, but not really being genuine, not really empathizing with them.

So I could say “I know you’re upset with your sister” Or “I understand you’re upset with your sister.” So I’m acknowledging, but I’m not open and accepting of my child. There’s a big difference. This is why sometimes parents will say that it doesn’t work for them. It doesn’t work when they acknowledge feelings. Their child says “stop talking. I don’t want to hear that.” That is often because if we tune into our intention there, while we’re acknowledging, it might be: Okay, I’m doing what I’m supposed to do. Now just stop. Or: You shouldn’t feel that way or that’s not okay that you have that feeling. When in fact, what we want to do with acknowledging is the opposite.

That can only happen if we are in the mode of trusting, letting the feelings be. So that has to come first. That has to be what’s inside of us and what we’re intending when we’re acknowledging. Or else, to children, who see right through our words into what we’re feeling, they will get: I’m really uncomfortable as your parent and I don’t like this and I really want you to stop. So then that’s what they react to with, “Stop talking! Stop saying that!” You’re not letting me share.

So “acknowledge” has to be genuine. We don’t have to actually empathize. Sometimes we won’t empathize because it’ll seem too unreasonable and wrong, but at least accept and be open to it. Don’t try to say too much. Trust, accept, and acknowledge from that place.

Okay. Number three, this was what Magda Gerber called her magic word:

3) Wait

The reason to wait is that we have basic trust in our baby or child of any age as competent and able. And a struggle that they’re engaging in that they seem to want to be engaging in because they’ve chosen it, is a worthy struggle that we don’t want to interrupt, if possible.

So our child’s play and their experimentation, what they’re doing when they’re learning through play, learning how to use an object. This belongs to them. With the approach I teach, we value that. We value our child’s inner-directed learning and the power of them being able to guide their learning and achieve what they’re interested in achieving. Not what we’re interested in them achieving. Or what we want them to get a little faster or what we worry that they’re going to feel discouraged about if they don’t get to it.

So when a baby, let’s say, is in the supine position and they’re twisting and they’re working on rolling to their tummy, we see that happening. Maybe they’re making sounds that are effortful. Well, we want to notice, observe if they’re in a manageable struggle or not. If it doesn’t seem manageable, if it seems like distress, exhaustion, or an overwhelmed baby, then we’re obviously going to offer to pick them up.

This is another time to acknowledge, “It seems like you’re working on something there, you’re working on rolling over?” It’s so easy for us to fix children, turn them over, pick them up, put the blocks together for them, do the puzzle piece. We can do those things, but whenever we do, we’re erasing the possibility that our child can have an “I did it” moment — to feel that incredible gift of agency in their life, of ability. We’re going to take that away sometimes because we’re human beings and we don’t want to see our child uncomfortable. It will happen, but we want to be aware… if we do value this idea of our child’s feelings of competence and agency in the world that will encourage them to be lifelong learners, to embrace lifelong learning, joyfully.

I’ve worked for years with children in parent, infant, and toddler classes and I’ve feel it too. I want to show them this thing over there that fits with what they’re doing. Here are these balls that are similar and they can roll them all together. I have so many ideas. I have so many great, I think they’re great, fun things to add to what a child’s doing or to make it what I think could be better for them. What I’ve come to do is observe and wait, observe goes along with wait, and invariably, they do something completely different. They do it their way. They climb down the steps on their tummies facing downward — the opposite of what we think they’re supposed to do. They’re supposed to turn around, right? to go down steps. Well, children usually don’t. They find their own way to go down.

I remember this one child, the first time she walked to the top of this step of what we use in these classes. A lot of the time it’s this rocking boat on one side, but it’s like a little bridge-looking type step thing on the other. And usually, they’re crawling up first when they’re younger. And then one day they start to step up. This child, the first time she did that, not only did she step up, but she had a toy in each hand, a heavy toy, like a wooden car. That’s how she chose to achieve this.

So they surprise you in these wonderful ways. It really makes parenting so much more exciting and enjoyable and surprising and helps us to see how capable our children are, how interesting they are, how creative their ideas are, how much better their ideas for them are than ours for them. So we can really enjoy that.

Then I know parents ask “well, what if my child asks me for help?” Oftentimes, that’s because we have done it for them in the past, but either way, let’s say our child asks us for help. I’m referring specifically to help during play. I believe in always saying “yes” to help. I would never say “no, I’m not going to help you.” I say “yes”, but the way I define help is different than “I will fix it for you.” To me, that’s not helping, it’s not helping my child to feel confident, to be able to do things, to want to do things themselves.

So I’ll say “yes, okay.” Oftentimes, all the child wanted was to know I was there supporting them and they actually do it right there, but if I have been helping in the past, then they might hand me the jar to open for them. I’m talking about a kind of plastic jar that they have in their play area, a jar that they could open. If it’s too tight, then I might loosen it just a little bit, but that’s the most I would do. I would hold it for them. If they want me to do it. I would say “oh, I know I did that for you before. I’m not going to do it now because that’s not really helpful for you.”

I’m there and I trust, maybe my child gets upset, but that’s okay. That’s a healthy expression of frustration of: I’m maybe not able to do this yet myself or you did it for me and now I’m uncomfortable because I’m used to that you do these things for me.

We can give them a false sense of dependency when we rush in and we don’t practice “wait.” So we say “yes” to help, we come over, we come close. We make sure we’re giving our full attention there because it’s not helpful if we’re also distracted on our phones or doing something else. I’m going to help you by giving you my full attention and support for what you’re doing. We don’t have to say “you can do it, try it, try it.” In fact, I wouldn’t do those things because that can create more pressure. Oh, my parent wants me to do it they think I should be able to do it. It makes it harder for them. So I’m just there. I’m breathing to keep myself comfortable. I’m trusting.

Then we do the smallest thing.

So if it’s a physical skill where they’re climbing or something, we would be spotting to keep them safe. And so maybe we would say “I’m here to keep you safe. I won’t let you get hurt.” That’s it. That’s the first level because we want to do it in stages so that our child gains more out of this experience — more agency, more confidence, more belief in themselves as capable.

The second level is that we give a verbal direction, maybe. “It seems like you’re stuck there. Does that feel like you’re stuck?” So we’re acknowledging the feelings or what our child is expressing to us. We wait for a moment and then maybe we say “try putting your foot down to this next bar below the one that you’re on. Can you get that foot out of there?”

Now let’s say our child is starting to get more frustrated and they seem unable to do that.

So then the next thing I would do, always waiting in between a little bit so that this is really in stages and I’m not just rushing from zero to 10 here… and all along I’m acknowledging and empathizing with what they’re feeling… The next stage is: maybe I help you move your foot, which is stuck next to your other leg. Maybe I help you move that foot out and I say “okay, now I think it’s free to go down. Do you want to try that?” Let’s say they can’t, they’re feeling a little stuck. Then I might put their foot down. So I’m not taking them all the way down. I’m not putting them all the way up onto something. I’m doing the most minimal thing because that’s truly helping, rather than taking the experience away from them and fixing it, which is again, so easy for us as adults to do.

Maybe if we’re impatient, we do it, but whenever possible, let children reap all the benefits of the experience. They also learn: something can be hard, I can feel a little frustrated, I can feel that struggle and the discomfort of that, and then I push through it to the other side.

So we could say those words to them till we’re blue in the face, and it’s not going to help them. Experiencing it is what teaches them, experiential learning. That’s the way children learn best. They learn through all their senses, experientially.

Okay, so that was number three, “wait.”

Number four:

4) Set limits early

So, wait in terms of development and play and problem-solving. Set limits early when it’s about behavior that we don’t think is helpful to our child, that is uncomfortable because our child’s doing something with our stuff that we don’t want them to do or bothering our bodies. Set limits early, and I would do this with a confident light attitude.

When we see our child rushing towards us with that kind of manic energy, and they’re going to crash into us, we put our hand out and we stop them. “I see you rushing towards me. When your body’s calm, I’d love to have you sit with me.” Not waiting until they’re already jumping on us and then we might be saying “get down, I don’t like this.” So at that point, we’re already probably feeling annoyed with our child, victimized, and we’re not helping them with this impulsive behavior.

Setting limits early is understanding that children, much of their behavior is very impulsive. They don’t know why they’re doing it half the time. If we wait too long, we have much more of a chance of getting frustrated, not being able to have a confident, light attitude, the kind that eases behavior, that calms children, that helps them feel: oh, my parents have this. They’re the leaders and they’re not intimidated by me and I’m not a problem for them. They can handle me.

So if I see my child running towards the baby, part of us might feel: oh, I don’t want to discourage their relationship with the baby. Don’t worry about that. It’s much more encouraging to your child to let them know that you are there for them. You’re there to stop them.

So I would put my hand out or put my hands on my child lovingly say “oh, looks like you’re running very quickly to that baby. I don’t know if that’s going to be safe, so I’m going to stop you right here. If you slow down, you can come closer.” And then I’m ready to help my child through all the stages of that. They can come closer now I see that their body is calm, so I can allow them to come close into the baby’s face, maybe, but then I might still have my hand nearby because I don’t want them to headbutt or abruptly move into that rougher behavior, which is very, very common with toddlers who have a baby. They’re feeling out of control with this new situation and they’re just vibrating with this impulsive energy.

Anticipate, be the one to say, “I’m going to leave you in your safe place while I go to the bathroom.” Instead of waiting until our child is already there with us and now they’re doing things in the bathroom that we don’t want them to do and we can’t relax. Anticipate and help your child right at the get-go, or before the get-go because that when we can be the calm leaders or children need.

This goes along with the next one, which is number five:

5) Concerning behavior is a request for help

It can be all levels of help. It can be this more minor: help me feel safe with you as a leader because when I grab your glasses off your face, you get really stern and angry and it’s disconcerting to me and there’s something in me that just keeps doing that, even though I don’t want to be doing it. I know it makes you mad, but just feeling the power of that is so weird and I need to keep testing it.

That might be what our child is feeling, not having conscious thoughts about this, of course, but that can be what’s going on for them. Or it can be: I’m really out of control here, hitting kids and pushing people in the park.

So we want to help them there, right? And ideally set limits early, be in there early: Oh, I see my child’s kind of having a day here or seems really tired. For some reason, they’re having this behavior. I’m going to come in and stop them. I’m going to be right next to them. Be what I call a buddy-guard and hang out and make sure that nothing happens here. And maybe I’ll make the choice to take them home before this gets worse, because usually these types of behaviors don’t suddenly resolve and get better. They usually get worse in those moments.

So being that advocate for our child, helping them when they can’t help themselves, and being that safe person, the hero our child needs in those moments.

I’m saying this like it’s easy. I know it’s not. It’s all about the way we perceive. If we perceive the behavior as a request for help: my child needs my help here. I’m going to be more clear with the boundary (if that’s what they’re asking). I’m going to be more confident and light with the boundary because they seem to be repeating it for that reason. I’m going to answer the question that their behaviors asking me as best I can as a confident leader and I know that behavior reflects my child’s comfort level.

They’re doing the best they can in any given moment. So we can put all concerning behavior into this one category: a request for help. It will make our lives so much easier.

Because when we see behavior as children are out to get us or they’re bad children, or they’re going to be doing this when they’re 20 years old still, and I better give them a lesson right now… The lesson children need is that we’re in their corner, we’re going to help them when they can’t help themselves, and that we understand that they are immature humans reacting out of stress, out of tiredness, getting dysregulated very, very easily with emotions overwhelming them.

They’re people, but they’re at a different stage of life than we are, a much different stage of life where they don’t have the self control that we have, even if they sometimes are so articulate and seem so wise beyond their years, they’re still little ones. They still need our help.

Okay. Number six:

6) I won’t let you

This is the only reminder I’m sharing that is actually words for us to say. I know we all like scripts and I do give them as examples, but I don’t believe in “if you just say these words, this is going to do the trick” because I know that it’s not about words. It’s about our intention, which comes from what we’re feeling and our perceptions of the situation, and our perceptions of our child, and our role as a parent.

What I won’t let you reminds us of is that we want to be in connection with our children in a genuine way when they need our help. We hear a lot about “connect before you correct,” but then we also hear suggestions to say “hitting hurts, we don’t hit.” It’s common to suggest talking in third person: “Mommy doesn’t want you to… Mommy doesn’t like it when you…” All of these things were the norm when I was first sharing online 12 years ago. “I won’t let you” is actually Magda Gerber’s suggestion that now is becoming more common, which is great.

Here’s why it matters: the connection. “I and you.” I’m in first person and I am connecting with you. That may seem like a small difference from saying “mommy or daddy doesn’t want you to”, but it will really make a difference to us in the way it feels. It will feel more clear and confident. It will remind ius that we are talking to a human being and that we are comfortable being their leader. We’re not trying to put it off into this mommy person over here on the left that isn’t quite me.

It’s me and you and I’m here for you. “I won’t let you.”

And we’re suggesting with “won’t let you,” that I’m here to help, and I’m going to stop you, not get mad at you because you’re not following my verbal direction. I’m going to help you stop the behavior. I won’t let you go in this drawer and I’m stopping you before you open it, setting limits early, again because I know that I’m not in the mood for you to go in this drawer and take all my stuff out. Maybe in another moment, I would be, but right now I’m not and I’m tuning into that with myself. So I’m going to stop you right here.

And now you want to do it again.

“I won’t let you. Let’s go to the other room. I’m not going to let you do that.” And we take our child away from the object of that impulsive behavior.

This is also why a Yes Space can be really, really helpful, a place where we don’t have to say “don’t do this, don’t do that” all the time and our child can feel free to be the explorer they’re born to be.

Okay. One more. Number seven:

7) Confident momentum in transitions

Because transitions are hard, very hard for young children who are in so many transitions internally and feeling everything intensely that’s changing around them. These mini transitions that happen throughout the day are often when they fall apart and need our help. Confident momentum is when we understand that going in, or we at least try to remind ourselves: Oh yeah, I’m going to need confident momentum. We’re going to get into the car or I’m going to help my child get dressed for school, even though they can do it themselves, they may need my help and confident momentum.

It’s not about being fast or disrespectful. It’s about closing the gaps, so our child starts to put their socks on, and then they say “no, I don’t want this.” Or: now I’m going to go look over here at something in the corner that’s interesting. Maybe we would let them do that during a play period. That’s a great thing to do, explore and experiment with everything that’s safe for you.

But right now we can’t, right, because we’ve got to get from point a to point B and we don’t want our child to get stuck in the transition. So in that case, we say, “You can look at that when you get back, but for now, we’re going to get going.” It means, “Okay, I’m going to help you put your shoe on.” And maybe we have to pick our child up and get them to the car and get them in the car seat. We invite them to participate, but we try to notice right away when they’re not going to be able to. We try to catch that early. We notice early: oh, they’re stalling or they’re getting stuck, so I’m here to be the hero. “I’m here to help you. Here we go.”

Confident momentum in transitions usually requires a lot less physicality than we might have believed, because when we’re confident, when we’re coming in ready to go, ready to move forward, knowing we might get push-back and it might be hard, but we’re still going to go forward. Not going to let it stop me and throw me off. I’m in confident momentum mode. Then I can be ready to just put my hand behind your back and guide you, take your hand. I do it with confidence.

And confidence makes all the difference with children. Our comfort, our confidence just eases their mind. They feel so safe. They feel: oh yeah, I’m the little child and I do have parents here that can do this stuff for me. They’re not waiting for me to decide these things. I get to decide my play. That’s the area where I’m in charge.

So that’s my list:

Let the feelings be

Acknowledge

Wait

Set limits early

Concerning or inappropriate behavior is a call for help

I won’t let you

Confident momentum in transitions

Then there’s one more and it’s the most important one of all:

 BE GOOD TO YOURSELF

Be patient with yourself. Remind yourself every day that this is a process. It’s a journey. We’re never going to be perfect. We just keep going, keep showing up, and learning along with our children.

Please feel free to download this illustration by Anne Kenny from Caring Ink!  Thank you so much, Anne!

I really hope some of this helps. And please check some of my other podcasts on my website janetlansbury.com. There are 200-and-something of them at this point and they’re all indexed by subject and category so you should be able to find whatever topic you might be interested in. And I have two books, they’re available at Amazon: No Bad Kids, Toddler Discipline Without Shame and Elevating Child Care, A Guide To Respectful Parenting.  You can get them in eBook at Amazon, Apple, Google Play, or barnesandnoble.com, and in audio at Audible.com. Actually, you can get a free audio copy of either book at Audible by following the link in the liner notes of this podcast.

Thanks so much for listening. We can do this.

The post 7 Daily Reminders for Parents appeared first on Janet Lansbury.

Transcript of “Choose Not to Battle with Your Child (Here’s How)”

Hi, this is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled. Today I’m responding to an email I received from a parent who feels like she’s constantly battling her almost three-year-old. What I’m going to be talking about, which I think will help this parent and hopefully, other parents as well is navigating where children need us to lead them and put boundaries in place, and where they need us to follow. And understanding these differences is key to making our lives easier as parents, having fewer power struggles or battles, our child is more comfortable and we’re more comfortable.

And another issue in this parent’s note that comes up as an underlying theme is her child’s sensitivity towards separation. So I’ll be talking a little about that as well.

Before I read this email, I want to preface it with a couple of thoughts. First, I want to say that this parent is very obviously like the majority of the parents that reach out to me: a wonderful caring person and parent. The feedback I want to give is not at all in criticism of her, but only to help.

Another thing I want to mention is just to share a little about my process. I receive a lot of notes. I’m very privileged to be in that position with parents needing help. I wish I could help all of them, of course, but that just isn’t possible. What stands out for me, what makes me want to do a podcast around a particular note is if I almost want to have a dialogue with the parent as I’m reading and say, “Oh, if you just try this, it’s going to be so much easier. Oh, I think I can help you here.” If I feel that coming up for me, then that tells me that maybe I have something to say about this issue that could be helpful to this parent or other parents. And that happened to me a lot in this note.

So all of that said, here’s the letter:

Hi, Janet. Help! I feel like I’m constantly fighting my almost-three-year-old. We never went through the terrible twos, but in the last six weeks, I’ve learned what they mean by three-nager. I’m stubborn. So when I say no, which isn’t often, I mean no and, unlike my parents, I’m not going to eventually give in. And he constantly challenges that. When I say it’s time to go, it’s time to go and he constantly challenges that. When I say it’s time to get dressed, it’s time to get dressed and he constantly challenges that. I’m at my wit’s end.

I’m an avid reader. I’ve read so many books on discipline and your methods make the most sense to me. I try to incorporate them into our daily lives, but we’re still butting heads.

We wake up early, 6:00 AM, so he gets breakfast and gets 20 minutes of tablet time while I shower and get dressed. Then he plays for another 20 minutes and I give it another 20 minutes to get out the door by 7:00, but it’s never 7:00. It’s usually 7:15 or later, which is ridiculous given the time we start.

I’ve started giving just the FYI notice, “the train is leaving for school in 10 minutes” and he’ll negotiate.

“Mama say ‘Alexa, four more minutes.'”

So I’ll give him four more minutes and then I’ll ask him if he wants to walk to the changing table or be carried and he’ll run and hide. And then I have to chase him around the house every single day.

Then we finally get him dressed and it’s “do you want to go climb into your car seat or do you want me to help you in?” And he’ll run into the garage and hide. I don’t even open the garage door until he’s buckled in anymore because he’d be halfway down the street if I did.

In the rare instance he does get in the car without being forced, he’ll bypass his car seat and run around the car, running from door to door as I get more and more frustrated every single day.

Before we leave the house, I’ll give him hugs and kisses and then another round or two, and I tell him to have a good day and I’ll see him after school. We have to do this before we leave, as they pick him up directly out of the car at school. But in the last couple of weeks, he started fighting the hugs and kisses. So I’ll go get in the car and then he’ll cry that he didn’t get them, and then when I go to give them, he’ll fight them again. This could happen three or four or more times and put us really behind schedule, but I don’t ever not go back for those hugs kisses because I don’t want him to think I don’t want them.

Needless to say, by the time I drop him off at school by 7:15, 7:30, I’m exhausted and in a terrible mood.

We have a few struggles at night, but not near as many and I have to wonder if it’s because he knows we’re going to be separated while he is at school. He’ll even say things like, “Mama, you came back,” most days when I pick him up like he’s surprised I came back. Yesterday I heard him having a conversation with his stuffed monkey and he told him, “See, I came back.” How can I make him feel secure in that?

Another issue we have is around potty learning. He’s shown interest since right before his second birthday, but he’s had so many adjustments to make since then that we’ve struggled with consistency. He turned two in March. In April he went back to school part-time after being with his nanny full time for eight months. In December, our nanny moved away, and in January, he went back to school full time.

Now that I’m writing this, I have to wonder if some of the behavior issues are because we don’t have our nanny anymore even part-time.

With potty learning, he won’t even try anymore. I ask him if he wants the diaper or the underwear, and he’ll say underwear, and then proceed to go hide and poop in his underwear. He knows he is doing it. He could just as easily go to the potty. What gives? He does the same thing at school though, he has fewer accidents because they put him on the potty on a schedule with the rest of his friends.

I adopted my son as an infant, as a single mom. I know very little about his family history, but I did meet his dad briefly. He had such a great spirit and a great dimpled smile that my son inherited, but it seems he also had a troubled childhood. And from the few minutes we spoke, I picked up that he constantly fought authority because he was strictly disciplined and never challenged mentally.

My son is smart. He has been since he was little and it’s not just me. The social worker who did our home studies picked up on it when he was an infant and his teachers tell me now. And he’s also got a lot of spunk and a ton of spirit and oh so much energy. I try to give him everything I can to foster his intelligence. We read books together every night. We tell stories. We draw pictures and practice writing letters. If he shows interest in anything, I probably go overboard and provide it all. It’s important to me that I help him achieve his potential, especially as an adoptive mom.

Oh, and also somewhere in the back of my mind, I’m thinking if I can help bring out his full potential, give him opportunities, then maybe he won’t fight me/authority when he is older.

We spend a lot of time together. It’s just me and him after all, and we have our little routine. I pick him up from school, he’ll play in the playroom or with our kitties while I fix our dinner, then bath. Then we play for a little while and read books and then off to bed. He’ll often ask me to sleep in his bed for a while, or he’ll ask to sleep in my bed and I often let him. But generally, our evening routine is fairly uneventful.

All this to say, I don’t know what else to do to reassure him and make things a little less challenging. Help. Thank you so much for taking the time to read this novel.

Okay. So there are a lot of great details here — so many universal ideas that parents share with me that they have problems with. So I’m excited to go over this.

The first thing I want to say is going to sound so nitpicky, I know, or fuddy-duddy or something else negative, but I have to say it. I don’t think this parent or any parent helps themself by using words like “terrible twos.” Although she said she never went through terrible twos, she said she’s learned what they mean by “three-nager.” And these are terms that, while harmless in themselves, put images in our mind that are going to mislead us and make us feel more in a power struggle with our child than we need to be. Because we’re seeing young children as this other.

We hear people talk about taming tantrums and taming toddlers as if they’re animals and these wild beasts, and three-nager is seeing a tiny little guy who’s not even three as a teenager with that maturity, with that attitude. I mean, even teenagers underneath the swagger are just sweet, vulnerable kids underneath it all.

But this guy is just an innocent tiny little boy doing exactly what he’s supposed to do at this age and exactly what every parent should on some level welcome children to do, because it’s a great sign.

Reading later in this note that he’s adopted, he’s so comfortable with this mother that he’s pushing back, being more his own person, showing his autonomy and his will, and that what he wants is different than what his mother wants. This is exactly what toddlers need to do to individuate and develop more of their independence and autonomy. But of course, they always want it on their terms, not when we want to separate. They want to be the ones to push us away and that’s how it’s supposed to be.

So seeing that for what it is will help our heart to go out to this child and to want to help him in the areas where he gets stuck and is struggling. But not see him as this scarier older person than he is. He’s very immature emotionally, as he should be at this age.

So getting off that soapbox, then she talks about how he’s constantly challenging her when she says no. When she says it’s time to go he challenges that. When it’s time to get dressed, he challenges that. And what he’s showing in “time to go” and “time to get dressed” is that he is also a very typical child for his age, struggling with transitions.

I talk a lot about that on my podcast because it will help us so much as parents if we can know that transitions are a big, big challenge for young children. Even if they weren’t going through any other kinds of transitions in their life like losing their nanny, starting a new school, moving houses, they are in this ginormous developmental transition and it’s really hard for them to keep their balance and not go off the edge a lot. Every inclination in a child this age, again, the healthy inclination is to say no. Even if they want to say yes, even if they prefer to eat the ice cream cone, they kind of have to say no first. It’s who they are. It’s this very harmless healthy aspect of development.

So she’s getting stuck, as parents do, with trying to get his cooperation at a time when she’s probably least like likely to get it — during a transition. Because this small transition of getting out the door to school can be the tipping point for a child for all the other transitions that they’re feeling. And then she’s absolutely right when she later realizes that separation may be part of this as well.

So why are other transitions that he has not as hard? Well, this one for him is about separation, and what this all means is that he needs a lot of help. What I want to help this parent see is how she can help more getting through the transition and not get caught up in wanting him to lead this, because transitions are an area that children almost always need us to lead. Especially in these toddler years. They need that extra helping hand to get the momentum going and get from point A to point B.

So that’s why he’s challenging her. Not because he wants to be a teenager or even that he doesn’t want to go to school. I think he does, but this is so hard to get from point A to point B. It’s really hard to get going.

One of the things she says here is that she gives him 20 minutes of tablet time… and this is just a small thing, but it stuck out for me because it is a little bit harder for children when what they’re doing is so engaging, like any kind of tech use or screen time. They get pulled in more deeply and it’s harder to stop than playing with toys would be. So it’s just something to look at that she may want to change. She says, while she’s showering and getting dressed, he has the tablet time, and then he plays for another 20 minutes. So at least he’s playing without the tablet after that. So that’s good. Anyway, just for us to understand that that’s something more challenging for him to come out of than just playing with toys. Just for our own information.

Then she says she gives him the notice “train is leaving for school in 10 minutes” and he’ll negotiate.

So if we know that this is a challenging situation, that children need a lot of help with,… the momentum, what I call the confident momentum, they need that from us to get them through the transition, then we won’t open up space for negotiation. Because negotiation is us giving up our leadership to the child.

Now sometimes there’s room for that and maybe there’s room for that even in this if they did it the night before saying, “Let’s work out a plan for tomorrow. We have to get out the door, this is what I’ve got to help you do. What would make it better for you? What would make it easier for you?” That’s the time to negotiate, but not in the moment in the middle of a transition. It will put the brakes on everything because our child is telling us, or showing us, through their behavior in this case pretty clearly, that he can’t handle it. So he can’t be in charge of this.

And then she asks him if he wants to walk to the changing table or be carried. So that’s a great thing to offer him, but maybe not in a transition like this when he’s showing that it’s a struggle. This parent is realizing that because of her own frustration and exhaustion at the end.

And if she’s human, which I imagine she is, she’s not really liking him very much at the end of that. We don’t want to put ourselves in that position if possible, and the way to do that is to see transitions for what they are: big challenges. And to not be afraid on her end to be the bad guy who’s not going to negotiate. We do that with love and a smile, and we’re not angry, but we’re not going to let him negotiate.

Maybe ask him if he wants to climb in the car. But if we see the slightest pause, we’re already ready to be on that, to just give him a little helping hand. “You know what? I’m going to do it this time.” And then maybe we don’t give him the choice sometimes because he really doesn’t need it there when you are in a hurry, trying to get him out the door to a separation situation that he’s showing he’s kind of sensitive to, as a lot of children are.

So if he tries to negotiate saying, “Mama say Alexa four more minutes,” I would say, “Aha, that’s an interesting idea, but no, we’re not going to do that this time. We’ve got to go.”

I’m not getting mad at him for saying that. I’m allowing him to try to negotiate, but I’m not going to come to the table with him, because I understand that he can’t handle that.

Then she says when she asks about the changing table, he runs and hides. So we don’t want to give opportunity for that. If that’s his M.O. or a possibility, don’t give him that option and allow him to be in charge of that. Have your hand behind his back, say, “Okay, now we’re going to change your diaper.” Very confidently. “Here we go.”

And then he tries to run and we already have our hands around him, on his arms, on his shoulders and we’re not going to let him run. “You want to run? Nope. I’ve got to hold onto you.” Not letting him follow his impulse there.

Then she says he finally gets him dressed and she’s asking if he wants to climb in the car or does he want her to help him in. And he runs into the garage and hides again.

Don’t signal that you’re giving him a choice. Don’t offer him a choice, open the door, say, “Okay, now it’s time. We’re going in.”

Parents sometimes say to me, “Well, I can’t do this. My child’s too strong. Or my child’s too…” It’s not about that we have to use brute force. It’s about our confidence going in knowing that we’re being heroic here helping him do this and saying no to his request for choices or more time and all of that stuff. It’s not as loving to just let him anger us, and frustrate us, and do all these pauses that he really doesn’t want to do either. He’s getting stuck there and we want to help him get unstuck.

We want to help her avoid getting frustrated with him because that doesn’t feel good to her or to him.

So all of these machinations with the diaper changing, and the four more minutes and the I can’t get in the car, I’m going to run around the garage. All of that is like he’s waving a flag saying: I need help. I need leadership here. I can’t do this.

If she could see it that way, that will help her to be the hero.

Then she says before they leave the house, the hugs and kisses, and wow, I could feel how it would be so hard for her to say no to the hugs and kisses. But if she takes a little step back out of that fear that he’s going to feel somehow that she would reject him, or doesn’t love him or want to be affectionate with him. If she could take a step back, she could see that this is quite unreasonable what he’s asking of her.

He’s saying: I don’t want it. I don’t want it. I’m going to fight you. But now when you carry on, now I want it. And then I don’t.

And this is really torture for both of them. It’s not helpful for her to keep that going. It would be more helpful for him and her to say, “Okay, now’s the time for the hugs and kisses.”  And he says, “No,” and say, “Okay, my love, I can’t wait to give them to you when I pick you up.” Then let him be angry about that. Let him vent these feelings that are maybe below the surface here with the separation and just the challenge, the emotional challenge of a transition.

I really hear her that she’s so afraid of giving him those feelings, but I can promise her he will feel relieved that he can vent and that his mother adores him and is being the leader that he needs right here.

Then when she drops him off, I think she’ll be there on time and she will not be exhausted and in a terrible mood. If she can image this as what it is: somebody that needs help, her coming in as the hero, so many little pitfalls he’s opening up for her to fall into and she’s not going to, she’s going to keep moving ahead with confidence.

This idea about the separation is another place that sounds like it’s making it so much harder for her be this confident leader, because it’s like there’s a little uh-oh in her head saying: Oh gosh, he doesn’t feel secure about separation. He’s not sure I’m coming back.

And I don’t believe that’s what’s going on here at all.

It sounds like he is sensitive to separation and that is common with children that are adopted. Even if they’re adopted at birth, they have experienced a separation. What helps them to heal it is not for us to tippy-toe around separations or avoid them or feel sorry for our child whenever we have to have one with him. But it’s actually to face the separations with confidence in yourself, confidence in him, and holding that space for him to share the feelings, whatever they are. And children, as I’ve said many times in this podcast are very, very adept at this. They do it naturally. It will come up in every situation where there’s separation. There’ll be a little more healing.

He’s also had this separation with his nanny. That was a huge realization this parent had as she’s writing the note. Yes, the loss of that nanny, that’s a big deal. This is somebody with whom he’s been intimately connected. So yes, separation, but how does he heal this and feel better? By experiencing it and feeling the feelings around it, which may be her saying no to his request for hugs and kisses after he’s pushed her away all those times. That is his moment that he’s sort of arranged for, unconsciously, where he gets to feel that, and that’s how he’ll get better.

And the fact that he’s playing it out with his toy, that’s what children do as well. And it’s so beautiful when we can see it that clearly. They use play for therapy in a lot of situations, but it’s not often this clear. He’s playing with his monkey the separation and that he will come back. And he’s saying it to his mother. “You came back, you came back.” So it’s not from insecurity that that is coming from. It’s self-therapy.

Then she talks about potty learning. So this is an area we cannot control how he’s moving his bowels or urinating. We can’t control that in any way and we can’t lead that. That’s a place that children need to lead. But children still need boundaries, even in these areas that they need to lead. And the boundary he needs is for his mother to see him, see where he is right now and not give him that option of underwear, because she’s the adult able to see that he’s not ready for that right now. Too many transitions happening. He’s processing a lot of stuff. He can’t do this right now. He will soon, but I wouldn’t make that another area of frustration for both of you, because that will only make it harder for him and for her.

So “he won’t even try anymore.” Right. Just trust that. You could still ask him sometimes if he wants to go and then if he says no, let it go. Accept his answer, let it be. This will pass. He’s in a bit of a grieving mode here with the nanny, maybe, and the other changes: going back to school full time. As this parent notices, he’s thriving in school, but he’s got a lot of feelings about it. And that’s okay. It’s healthy that he’s sharing them and sharing them with his mother who he totally trusts and is obviously very bonded with.

And actually, toilet training is sort of about separation as well. Someone pointed out to me after my podcast, well actually somebody was writing… They thought they were writing to their friend, I guess, because there was a name on there that they were writing to, but they actually wrote it back to me about my toilet learning post that I did last time with the podcast. She kind of criticized me that I was a bit wishy-washy, and I was, in terms of describing the three aspects of development that need to be in place for children to achieve toilet learning. She said it better. So I really appreciated her feedback and I’m going to share it here.

She said, “One, knowing physically the flow of the bladder. Two, emotional, knowing that she is going to feel separation from her insides go down the toilet! And then, three, cognitive understanding of how they are all interwoven.”

So she said it better, those three aspects of development that are needed. But interestingly, the emotional part is separation. So again, this separation theme… he’s really working on this it sounds like, and that’s just so healthy. And all these pieces will fall into place when he’s allowed to process the feelings.

I love what this mom shared about meeting her adopted son’s birth father, and I just want to help her see the part about him constantly fighting authority. She even says it was because he was strictly disciplined and never challenged mentally. So these issues were the result of his upbringing, not the innate traits that he has. So I don’t think she needs to worry the slightest bit that her son will have that and that somehow she has to compensate to help him to succeed and reach his potential, as she says.

I believe that she can trust that he’s got all he needs in her: a nurturing relationship, and that she can trust him to let her know what he wants to work on in terms of books, drawing, and eventually writing letters or reading that he can lead those aspects. And she really can trust that he, like all children, knows what he’s doing better than anybody in terms of his learning and that the best we can do is believe in him, enrich him in the ways that he requests, not push him into things that maybe we think he should be doing or want him to be doing. Really following him there with all the trust in the world that he’s got everything he needs with his relationship with his mother.

Then her last question is: “I don’t know what else to do to reassure him and make things a little less challenging. Help.”

I hope some of these ideas that I’ve shared will reassure her that he doesn’t need reassuring. He just needs her honesty, her leadership when he can’t be the one to do it in these transitions, and her love, which sounds like she has in abundance for him. And when she takes on the leadership role, it will be a lot less challenging. I want her to believe in herself and allow him to share and experience the feelings that he needs to feel.

I really hope some of this helps and thank you again to this parent for trusting me and sending me her note, her novel. And please check some of my other podcasts on my website janetlansbury.com. There are 200-and-something of them at this point and they’re all indexed by subject and category so you should be able to find whatever topic you might be interested in. And I have two books, they’re available at Amazon: No Bad Kids, Toddler Discipline Without Shame and Elevating Child Care, A Guide To Respectful Parenting.  You can get them in eBook at Amazon, Apple, Google Play, or barnesandnoble.com, and in audio at Audible.com. Actually, you can get a free audio copy of either book at Audible by following the link in the liner notes of this podcast.

Thank you so much for listening and for all your kind support.

We can do this.

The post Choose Not to Battle with Your Child (Here’s How) appeared first on Janet Lansbury.

Transcript of “A Holistic Approach to Baby and Toddler Sleep (with Grace Koinange)”

Hi, this is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled. Today I have a great guest to share with you. Her name is Grace Koinange. She’s a pediatric sleep consultant and a lactation-trained newborn care specialist. Grace works privately as a concierge sleep coach. She prides herself in solving almost all newborn sleep challenges from infancy to two years. While I actually know many sleep consultants that I can recommend, I had the opportunity to meet Grace recently when we were working alongside each other. And I was so struck by her intuitiveness, her gentle, calm presence, and how she was able to read a baby’s gestures and signals. Also, her overall approach to sleep. Some of which was surprising to me. I’m learning a lot from her. I’m excited to share Grace and her knowledge with you.

Hi, Grace. Welcome to Unruffled.

Grace Koinange:  Hi, Janet. I’m so glad to be here.

Janet Lansbury:  Well, as you and I know, I happened to be in the situation where I got to work alongside you, and I was so impressed with your ability to understand babies and what they need and their cues, which I always had a difficult time with. You’re just a wealth of knowledge and intuition about everything to do with sleep and helping children develop the healthiest sleep possible. I would love to hear a little about your background in terms of this work and how you developed your expertise around sleep.

Grace Koinange:  As a parent, nobody prepares you for what’s to come. I had no idea the things that I did not know. I am a trained doula and wanted so much to help my son who was struggling with sleep.

Janet Lansbury:  What was going on with him? What was the problem for you?

Grace Koinange:  There were a lot of sleep struggles. He was waking up at night every hour. He was breastfeeding. There was just a lot of me going back to put the pacifier in. And it just was quite destructive for both of us. As an adult, I could not function. And so I knew that there was information out there that I could get to be able to help him become a better sleeper. And also I needed to sleep because I felt like a zombie.

I braved myself enough to go to Google and search all the sleep techniques that were there. There was the cry it out. There was the extinction method. And just so many more that I kept finding myself getting confused about what to choose as a mom, because knowing my parenting style, I needed to choose something that was kind. I needed to choose is something that would help parents as a doula.

So I read sleep books. I took two sleep training courses. I researched and researched and through that research, I became curious enough to see if newborns could actually sleep or organize their sleep without much crying. And that was quite interesting for me. And this is how I discovered Magda Gerber. She founded Resources for Infant Educarers, and I loved everything about what she talked about. Competent, confident, curious, which is what I was. And I needed to incorporate this whole concept into sleep training. So I graduated and became a pediatric sleep consultant, and I incorporated some of RIE literature to help with my sleep science.

Janet Lansbury:  You said something when we met that sounded very similar to what Magda always said. I think the way you said it was that sleep is actually about eating and play, even more than it’s about sleep. Magda Gerber used to say that sleep is about the entire day that a baby has and the rhythms of their day.

Grace Koinange:  So yeah, the whole process taught me that there was no cutting-edge sleep science with training my son. Magda taught me that it is not about the baby waking up at 3:00 AM. It is truly about what happens the whole entire day from when the baby wakes up at 7:00 to when the baby goes to sleep at 7:00. It is the in-between because that’s what determines developmentally what the baby is doing. That was rich information for me to take. That was information that I wanted to use for my son, which I did.

At nine months, one of the things that was really important for me was, I never put my baby down. I never observed his play. He was working through a few struggles and I never thought that I could just watch him instead of pushing a toy to him. And so I helped him a lot in a lot of his play.

Magda taught me how to wait, just wait and see what happens. And I discovered that through sleep, that we have to wait for the infant to see what happens developmentally. So the secret for me was to just silently observe. That was the secret sauce of sleep training that I use right now and I also used for my son. It’s doing less, being present 100% on the floor with him, understanding that he’s going to work through that problem during play because that’s the same problem that’s going to develop at night.

Janet Lansbury:  Were you observing that he was capable of doing more in regard to sleep than you thought?

Grace Koinange:  Absolutely. The whole observation for me was that I realized that he was an excellent explorer. There was a consistency in how he played with his hands and what he was trying to do with his legs as a newborn. And I realized that allowing him to be on the floor and to experience his natural curiosity would help him do the same thing in bed.

Janet Lansbury:  You realized that your son could be capable as an infant in terms of play if you just calmed yourself, right? And waited a little and you were still present. You didn’t distance yourself from him; you were still very much in it. I’m sure he felt your presence because children do. They’re so aware when they’re babies. So being able to see that helped you see that he’s maybe capable of more than you thought in terms of sleep. That you didn’t have to try to make sleep happen so much, which I think we all get stuck doing.

Grace Koinange:  Exactly. I think my sleep training as you said, it was very practical. It’s like, let’s see what happens during play because this will come up during the night. But at the moment, I would tell myself the story: he’s waking up at night, I am sleep deprived, I am struggling as a parent, and I need to create structure. Is he eating enough?

So there were a lot of questions that I would ask myself to try and adjust to what I’m looking at and thinking that my baby is doing. I became introspective and I started understanding that it is truly not in my power to understand that, but to observe, and then take notes. I would observe and take notes and see… what is he struggling with during play? And as a parent, I found myself helping. I would push a toy, not allowing him to make his own decisions.

I was engaging in his play, which meant that he was going to call for me at night so that I can also engage in his sleep. And so that was important for me to know that I should let him carry his burden as a newborn. And how do I do that respectively? Because I did not want to do the cry it out. I thought this would happen during play.  And it was quite experimental and accidental, to be honest with you. It was trying to figure out: if he’s failing at this task, which is whatever he was doing at the moment, then he’s going to fail at the task of sleeping. And I was building expectations for myself and for him, which were not going to be achievable.

So because the cry it out was not attractive to me, I was going to be patient enough to do this with my child. And I was going to be patient enough to sort of understand: what is it that I need to gain for myself?

Most sleep books would tell me, they would say, wait three minutes or a few minutes if the baby wakes up, which is great. It’s a great concept when you think about it. We want them to develop a place where you’re not going in too quick to get the baby when the baby wakes up. But I thought to myself and I said: what if I could change this to waiting to three minutes before I could intervene in his play? What if I could wait a little bit before I could decide that he was doing something in my head that he wasn’t doing?

And so waiting for three minutes helped me understand that oh, he’s actually doing the work. He’s actually working on something. And so this was a sleep giver for me. It was looking at the solution and allowing the process to foster that helped me understand that setting goals and expectations really needed to happen during play so that he can transition to sleeping.

Janet Lansbury:  And was there crying involved when you started to give him at nine months more opportunities to help himself to sleep?

Grace Koinange: There was some struggle. There was some crying. I was uncomfortable as a parent because I was like: okay, he’s uncomfortable. And so I really feel uncomfortable. But let’s wait another minute and see what happens. He would experience whatever he was experiencing. But what was really beautiful about this is like when I gave him the space to experience these natural changes, it helped him figure out for himself, and we were able to see that some things were really tricky, and if he was rolling over in bed, he would experience a hardship. He would cry. But if I waited a few minutes, he would figure it out or he would start playing more as he did during play.

This was huge for me to just watch him on camera. And if he was struggling with something and he would roll over and then he would start clapping his hands or he would start bringing his hands together or he would just sit down and play with a toy that I had put in the bed, which is what he did during play. So that made me pause. That allowed me to have an experience that was different than cry it out.

Janet Lansbury: Technology is very helpful in this instance, isn’t it, the new technology?

With my second we only had the sound monitors, but I didn’t even use that because I had gotten so confident in her ability to call for me versus talking to herself and all the other things that she did. And I told her quite early, “When you want me, you call “Mom!” like that.” And of course, she didn’t say “mom” when she was a baby, but she made a sound that was very similar to that. It blew me away. And so I was able to trust that she would let me know.

It is challenging as a parent, especially with your first to feel comfortable with any sound that’s less than contentment and happiness and giggling. It’s hard to hear because our mind goes to all the worse-case scenarios. They’re feeling abandoned if I don’t immediately pick them up and rescue them from this situation. They feel like I don’t care, that I don’t love them or all of those things. It is challenging.

Grace Koinange:  It is very challenging. And I also think that we prioritize their needs in terms of what we think in our head. And so taking care of myself first and taking care of my body to understand… Let me just slow down a little bit and see and observe was really great. What I like about newborns and toddlers as well is that they’re actually organized in whatever disorganized world we think they’re in. We rush them developmentally into what we want them to do. But if we stop a little bit to see what they’re working through, we can follow the steps into how they transition from one place to another. I had transitioned my son from my room to the crib, and that was also another transition that he needed to face and go through. So just waiting and supporting him through that transition was important for him and also for me to sort of say: I need to hold onto my feelings. And I also need to know that he’s in a safe place.

Janet Lansbury:  I think one of the reasons that people have such a strong negative response to the idea of a child crying, especially at bedtime… or having them be in their own room or sometimes even in their own bed… one of the issues is this idea that children will feel abandoned. The parent feels that this separation is very negative for their child and that their child feels abandoned. And one of the things that struck me about your approach and your knowledge is that you sort of reframed the issue of separation in a way that I had really never thought of in terms of going from breastfeeding straight to bed, or going from feeding straight to bed. That separation can be an issue, but it’s different than the way most of us think about it. Can you talk a little about that?

Grace Koinange:  Absolutely. When you think about attachment and you think about how the baby bonds with us if you’re breastfeeding or feeding… Once they’re comfortable in that position, they tend to fall asleep. And then the next thing that happens after you feed, is you place your baby in the bed, and you walk away. And so you do not give them time to transition into understanding that you are leaving, right? And so they cry.

So the thing that I discovered through sleep and through working with parents is that if you feed before, then give an infant an opportunity for play and then place them in the crib, you’ve built neurons in the brain where they understand, okay, this is a transition that happens. I will be feeding. And the next thing I will do is play, which is excitement. They don’t go from feeding to sleep immediately. Because that is when you have problems placing your baby in the crib and you can’t walk away.

The books don’t necessarily tell us the methods of how do I put my baby in the crib and let them fall asleep? We talk about self-soothing. We talk about not letting them fall asleep on you, but how do you do this? And the way you do this is by allowing that child to have the space to play before you can place them in the crib and walk away.

Janet Lansbury:  So then you’re working towards the rhythm of: Your baby is sleeping, your baby wakes up, then soon after that you nurse or feed. And then they have some playtime after that before they are placed in their familiar, comfortable bed or entering into that bedtime routine, which you’re also a big fan of I know. That’s one of Magda Gerber’s basic recommendations: have a predictable routine and low stimulation.

Grace Koinange:  Giving them an opportunity where there is not too much noise and there’s not too much intrusion allows that child to take five minutes to understand the environment, understand their body, understand exactly what you’re communicating to them. And so this becomes a process. It becomes a routine for both of you that the baby loves and enjoys.

And they discover that this is how I fall asleep. I do not fall asleep on a warm body and then transition to a crib. I fall asleep the same way every day. You walk into the room, close the curtains, change the baby’s diaper, get the baby comfortable in their pajamas or sleep sack. And then from there, you place the baby in the crib and you say goodbye.

There’s a process and it takes time. And the process doesn’t change at all even when they are a year old. It stays the same. And so if you give them that information, I call it the university of sleep. So we start gently as we grow. And as the baby grows with you, they understand that this is how life transitions from awakeness to sleep.

Janet Lansbury:  And the other thing we commonly do or I certainly did in the beginning before discovering Magda’s work is the baby falls asleep with us and on our body or on the breast or whatever and then we place them in bed. Then they wake up in a place that they recognize, but they didn’t know how they got there. We don’t think maybe that it matters with a baby, but if you consider that they have actually higher awareness than we do as adults, it is something. It’s a thing. It’s a feeling of okay, I don’t really quite know what happens to me. I’m not a part of this so much. It’s a subtle thing, but …

Grace Koinange:  It is. It is part of the process, and it’s also part of how the brain develops, understands, and consumes sleep.

I think parents, in the beginning, tend to think that sleep is always the number one thing. But the confusion of sleep and why your baby’s not sleeping is actually food and inconsistency on feeding routines and where we feed and how. Feeding at the same place, sleeping at the same place, and sleeping when they’re awake so that they can understand the environment.

I mean, it would be hard for me to wake up in the morning in somebody else’s bed. Waking up with the same invitation to begin another new event or another new day, because for babies, every time they wake up, it is a new experience for them. And so if they learn that this is how they wake up every day, they gain this knowledge. They are able to regulate their body. They’re able to understand that this is the process, which is really, really huge. Babies like to know. Babies like a really, really good plan. And they like the same plan. So it is really important that when we are caring for an infant or caring for a baby, that we give them this opportunity to learn that we are confident caretakers, and we will walk through the process the same way because this is easier for them to be able to learn and gain knowledge of how we care for them.

Janet Lansbury:  Yes. And I mean, if we think about it, the world is so confusing and overwhelming to them. This new brand new world they’re born into. And it’d be like us going to a foreign country, maybe going to a different planet and not knowing anything. And we really want those parts of our day that we can hold onto and feel solid and depend on. It really helps to build confidence that hey, I can fall asleep. So creating that environment.

Grace Koinange:  Yeah.

Janet Lansbury:  What are some other things that get in the way as we’re trying to establish healthy sleep with our children?

Grace Koinange:  I think the number one thing that gets in the way is the parent. It got in my way, sleep training my son. I love this slogan about the airlines when they say secure your own mask or your own oxygen mask before securing your child. If you’re taking care of a newborn, take care of your own body. Getting to understand that I will go get a snack or I will eat properly before I attend to my newborn. I will make sure that I’m in the right mindset. So giving yourself that minute before you walk in to be able to be present, 100% present with a newborn and you’re not doing other things is really, really important.

Also knowing as an adult, this is a really, really good time to activate your executive functions. I find most parents that I work with talk about how they were functioning adults before and now their baby’s here, and they feel helpless. And so activating your own executive functions to sort of plan ahead. If feeding is a struggle, I will maybe consult a lactation consultant.

I would also make sure that if I am struggling with feeding, sort of understanding, do I need to space the feeding so that baby is not feeding every hour? Maybe give an opportunity for a day to say, I’m going to feed every two hours and see what happens. Because feeding every two hours will help the baby sleep longer.

It will develop some sort of pattern for the baby so that you can be able to look through the data of your day and say, oh, this is where we are going, and this is what’s happening. I can build on this. That’s really important, to understand that we have the skills to do this and we can fix it.

And we do not have to fix 24 hours with a newborn. I say this to all parents. “Let’s fix 9:00 to 12:00, and then we can work on the other part.” So it doesn’t have to be a whole day. Because newborns also don’t have the same sort of organization during the day. But you will find that they will repeat what they do between 9:00 am and 12:00 pm. They’re going to repeat it tomorrow and the next day and the other day and the other day. So if that’s what you work on, then that’s your winning point.

The other thing is to follow through. If you’ve transitioned, let’s say you have a toddler or you have a child who is older and you’ve decided that this is the transition we are going to take, follow through. Follow through in whatever plan you have. And it doesn’t have to be follow-through for a week. Let’s do three days. Three days is enough for a transition to stick. I like to look at the results and see if they’re working or they’re not. So having some measurable accountability that helps you understand what you’re doing, which is what doulas do, and sleep consultants, right? This is what we do. We have a measure. “Let’s try this method and see if this works. And if this does not work, we ditch that and go to something else.”

The other thing is staying organized within your routine. You cannot do one thing today, and then tomorrow you skip it, right? If you’re going to do a sleep routine: bath, book, some sort of a song, and then you lay your baby down, the baby’s waiting for the song. So let the practice be the same routine over and over. It might be boring for us, but it is quite entertaining for the infant to say: I cannot wait for that book. I cannot wait for that song.

I also advised parents to read the same book over and over, just the same way you read it with enunciation, the way you get animated. It’s really, really exciting for an infant’s brain to stay organized within that play.

Janet Lansbury:  Exciting. But it isn’t it also that it helps them to naturally wind themselves down.

Grace Koinange:  Yeah.

Janet Lansbury:  And prepare for separation because they know: okay, here’s this part. And then there’s this one more thing that happens. And then I go in my crib or I go on my bed and that’s when I go to sleep. And my parent is not going to be there while I’m sleeping. So yeah. It helps them to wind down if we have a gentle routine like that.

Grace Koinange:  Yeah. And we also have routines. We don’t go straight to bed. Brush your teeth, you get in your pajamas. You check a text message or two, which keeps you up. These are routines that everybody follows. So it’s important to keep the same routine for children to wind down as well.

Janet Lansbury:  And then for the whole day. Like you said, it’s not just about the wind-down routine. It’s their routine for the whole day.

Grace Koinange:  Absolutely. Absolutely.

Janet Lansbury:  I understand when parents say, “I don’t want to be on a routine all day.” It’s hard to keep that perspective that this is just for a short time and it’s going to actually serve you so much better in the end because you’re going to know, oh, I have this break between 1:00 and 2:30 in the afternoon where I usually… We can never count on it 100%, unfortunately, but… I’m going to have this break where I can do my thing. It’s such a benefit to us, and it doesn’t mean that you never break the routine, but you know that okay, well, I broke the routine, so now maybe I’m going to have a couple more difficult days, but we’ll get back to it.

Grace Koinange:  Yeah. And it is truly just staying consistent with the nap times. Those are the ones that are important because if you’re putting your baby to sleep at 9:30 and 1:30 every day, trust me, there’s going to be at some point that child at 9:30 will start rubbing their eyes. Their body’s going to be ready, and you will just pick them up, scoop them up, do your routine, place them in bed. And they will sleep because then you’ve activated their circadian rhythm, which is a huge thing for sleep. And so exercising that and remaining flexible, remaining curious. I always say to parents “just let’s remain curious for a while. Let’s just explore.” When I have a parent who calls me and sleep is not happening and nap is disorganized and she’s waking up and it’s so fragmented. And I always say to the parents, “Let’s stay curious and see what’s going on. Let’s have a plan. Let’s make a plan for the morning. Let’s work on naps.”

And she will say, “I’m looking to sleep through the night.” And I say, “Let’s work on naps because it’s really, really important for you to work on the small wins, which is naps, other than working on the night.” So if you work on the naps and the naps develop in a way where you get to learn when you’re alert, and it’s not 3:00 AM in the morning when you’re exhausted and tired, you will get to understand your baby as well.

The routines really, really are important. Not necessarily reading a schedule and knowing, yes, this is going to hold me down and I don’t have a life and I have to stay home. But it’s being in a place where if I stick to this, the 9:00 or the 9:30 nap, I will be able to help my baby through the night. It is a win for the night if we stick to the routines and we prioritize their sleep. The fun will come later. You will have so much fun if you know my baby’s sleeping at this window and I can be able to take a shower at this window. Right? Just the simple things.

Janet Lansbury:  Yeah. Simple things that we take for granted.

So now I want to ask you a couple of questions that represent common questions that I receive. So here’s one from somebody with an infant who is two and a half months old:

I’m writing to you for advice on sleeping. How do I set my child up for success? I have a bassinet next to our bed, but when I lay her down in it, she wakes immediately or only sleeps for 15 to 20 minutes. I try to rub her gently to help her get back to sleep or offer a pacifier. It sometimes works for a short while, but then she fusses too long or cries and I pick her up and hold her for some time, and put her back down. But neither of us gets to sleep much. I have her in a SleepSack with arms up for now. She seems to like that. Sometimes I take her out of that and lay her next to me in bed and we’re able to sleep for two to three hours at a time. Is this the right thing to do?

I read that you should put your baby to sleep in the crib for naps and nighttime, but she sleeps so much and is only awake for short times. That would be a very long time spent in a crib. I also want to be sure she is getting quality sleep because sometimes she doesn’t sleep so well being held and then is overtired and struggles to fall asleep. I just want to be sure I’m doing the best possible thing because sleep and having the ability to fall asleep, stay asleep, and have good quality sleep is so important. And that is something I’ve always struggled with myself.

Grace Koinange:  That is a loaded question. I love it. So as you are reading, as I get to understand what’s happening with the baby, I actually know what the struggle is. And the struggle is actually not sleep. The struggle is food. If you’re not feeding the right amount to the right weight, then the baby struggles and wakes up. And you find that you have to replace a pacifier. And this is a big deal for parents. If your baby is full and they are able to settle themselves down, then they do not require extra support from us. They do not require a pacifier. They do not require any rocking or any interference. They can be able to settle their body down.

Assuming that this baby has not eaten enough and so will not be able to fall asleep, what I would say to this parent is let’s look at the food math. Let’s look at how much the baby is feeding depending on the nap times and how the baby is feeding in a 24 hour period. We should feed our babies at the right weight. So for instance, if your baby is 12 pounds, they need to have 24 ounces of milk in a 24 hour period. And then you break that down into different feeds. And that really helps babies, whether it’s to settle down or to sleep through different feeds so that you can, if you’re breastfeeding, you can be able to replenish and make milk, or you can be able to rest. So this is a feeding question and not necessarily a sleep question.

Janet Lansbury:  Sorry, so you said 24 ounces because it’s a 12-pound baby. So it’s double, but it’s in ounces.

Grace Koinange:  Yes. Double the weight.

Janet Lansbury:  I don’t have to give 24 pounds.

Grace Koinange:  Yeah, don’t give 24 pounds of food. It’s 24 ounces of milk, whether it’s formula or breast milk. And that begs the question: If I’m breastfeeding, how do I know how much my baby is having? And this is a simple thing that you can do. If you have access to a scale, a baby scale, that would be great. 48 hours is enough for you to know how much your baby is having in a 24 hour period, because then you have two days to compare. I would weigh after every feeding for two days and, every feed, I will write it down so that I can know how much they’re having. If you don’t have access to a baby scale and you have access to your scale in the bathroom, just weigh yourself first, then step on that scale and weigh the baby. And this is going to be just a lot of math of you just subtracting. But I will tell you this, doing the food math gives you perspective in understanding: why is this baby not settling? It’s because they’re not having enough, but nobody tells us what is enough. Enough is just double the weight. Make sure they’re having double their weight. And the baby will be able to settle.

When you read that question, my brain triggers food, food, food. I would not even touch sleep because sleep is going to be a byproduct of whatever we do, which is as we feed the baby and they’re little enough, they will be able to settle back to sleep because they know how to put themselves to sleep.

Janet Lansbury:  That’s amazing that you got that from this note. I would’ve been much more confused. And then how about another question, which is very common about transitioning a toddler. Let’s say like a two or three-year-old, maybe younger, maybe a little older, from bed-sharing or co-sleeping to sleeping in their own bed in their own room, and the child is resisting and doesn’t want to do this. How would you approach that?

Grace Koinange:  So the first thing is making a plan, making sure that as a parent, if this is what you’re going to do, a plan that would comfortably allow the child to understand the decision that you’re making. Because it’s hard for a child to emotionally disengage from not sleeping in the same bed with you. It does become an emotional task for the toddler. So letting them understand: “We are going to have a separate bed for you. We have decided this is what the bed looks like, and it’s a toddler bed.” And you show them the pictures and you get them involved. “We are going to paint your room and we have two colors that you can choose from. I know you like pink, or you like purple, you like blue or green.” And so the child becomes part of the process. That’s the first thing that you do.

The second thing that you do is pick the day. If I am going to approach my two-year-old or my four-year-old, who is going to be sleeping alone, or my six-year-old and sometimes an eight-year-old, I would approach them in terms of telling them, “This is happening in four days.” Make it as tangible as possible for them to understand the timing because children don’t understand next week, or in two weeks, we are thinking about this. So just make it as short as possible. It’s going to happen in four days because you’ve been working on it as a parent, and then mark your calendar.

And I like to bring this conversation up before dinner happens. Your child is asking you so many questions, and they’re impatient about the food. This is a good time to bring up a conversation about, “Hey, we are thinking about your room. I know we’ve talked about this. Today is day two, day three or whatever.” And point to the calendar. So they get engaged. So when they’re eating, they can ask more questions. And when they sit down at the table, you give an opportunity to sort of think about this before bedtime. So if there’s a position for them to think of something else as you’re walking to bed, or as you’re doing your bedtime routine in your bedroom, you can say, “And tomorrow or on Thursday, we’re going to start transitioning into your bed. And the sleeping routine will be the same. We’re going to do bath. We’re going to read a book. So this is all going to remain the same. The only difference is you will have your own big bed.”

So make it as exciting as possible because it is part of the process. And when you make children part of this process, they become sold in so easily in the choices that they make.

Now, the biggest challenge is you can plan, you can paint, the bed is ready and everything works, and then the day comes, the child is obviously going with the plan and then falls asleep, but then wakes up and walks to your room and keeps walking back and forth. And so this is the big one. This is when we decide if we are two parents, who is going to do the work? Children at 3:00 AM are great negotiators. This is a point where you have your script and the script can go something like, “I am going to walk you back to your room. I will tuck you into bed. I will walk out of the room and I will say goodnight. And I love you.” You know, just however you talk to your child.

If it was my child, I would say, “Hey, Devon, I’m going to walk you back into the room. I’m going to tuck the bedsheets. I’ll give you your stuffy. I’ll kiss you on your forehead. And I will say goodnight, and I will see you tomorrow.”

Right? So that’s the process, but it’s the same thing over and over. So in case they’re talking over you and saying, “But I want to come and sleep back in your room. And I want to do X, Y, Z,” you’re listening kindly, but you’re responding back with the same answer. Whatever script you have, it has to be the same tagline all along as you’re doing it. And as you’re walking out of the room, don’t linger. Parents tend to linger because it’s an emotional place where you feel like: Oh, maybe this wasn’t the right thing. Or maybe they’re not happy. Or maybe X, Y, Z. If you’ve made a decision, this is a decision you’ve made because you want to care for your own body or because you’ve not been sleeping well and they haven’t been sleeping well, then this is the right decision.

And once you’re in it, let’s work through this struggle. It’s been gentle. It’s been kind. And not having a timetable for this, not being angry that the process is taking too long. You’re going to have three bad nights, for sure. If you have a toddler, you’re going to have three bad nights where you walk back and forth.

And also as you make your plan, let’s expand the plan. “So I’ve walked them into their room and I’ve said, goodnight, and I’ve said all this, the tagline you’ve given me. Then what do I do?”

So the next thing is planning to say, “I’m going to stay here until you fall asleep. Tomorrow, I’m going to be halfway through the room until you fall asleep. The next day I’m going to be outside the door.” So giving them the exact information of where you’re going to be and what you’re going to do within this time.

The other thing I also talked about is having just that one parent. One child will ask where is the other parent. And they might just be calling their name or just asking for them or screaming for their name. And you will remain calm and say so-and-so, maybe, “Dad is not available right now. Dad is sleeping because it’s at night and I am going to sleep and you’re going to sleep.” And helping them through that process.

And if they are not moving or they are not doing what you want them to do, just pick them up gently and say, “I am going to help you through this process and I’m going to take you back to your room, and I will pull the covers.” Whatever the script is, just repeat that script as you’re helping them through there.

Children understand the process. They really do. The people who don’t understand the process are the adults. Because the child will say, “Oh, I am thirsty.” And then you walk to the room to get the water. And they’re like: oh, okay. I can definitely ask something else. “Oh, I am this. And I am this.” So you are running, getting stuff for the child. And the child is also building information and saying, this is not an adult who is firm on the decisions they made.

So just being firm and understanding that I will just keep saying the same thing, repeating the same script, but also preparing yourself. If you know your child is thirsty, bring a bottle of water. If you know your child sleeps with the stuffy, you bring that stuffy. Don’t bring noisy toys. Don’t bring trucks and things that are going to be destructive. Bring soft things that will not be destructive towards you and their sleep. And so, again, repeating the process helps and knowing that this is short-term for long gains. Don’t give up. Just stick to the process.

Janet Lansbury:  I love that. There are so many great messages there about the child being an active participant and having ownership of the changes that we want to happen, as they want to have ownership even from birth, in their life as much as possible. Communicating with them honestly.

And then also I loved what you brought up about something we all feel as parents that… it’s separation again, but it’s our separation hiccup, not even our child’s so much. It’s us having those doubts seep in because we want to separate in this wonderful, loving, easy way. We don’t want to feel all our doubts coming in about, oh, my child doesn’t feel loved enough, or they can’t do this, or all those things. And understanding that we’re going to be inclined to have a little separation issue with a change like this.

I also loved what you said about the negotiating, because when they say, “Now I need another thing.” Again, being prepared in advance like: “Here’s the water. How many hugs should we put into the routine?” Because when they ask for another hug then we can at least feel a little more confident saying: “I can’t wait until the morning, I’m going to give you another hug. And that will be a wonderful time for me.”

But not getting engaged in the negotiation. For me, I had to see it as I’m really not helping my child there at all. It may feel nicer to me, but I’m actually not being as nice to my child to prolong this and make them feel my doubt and have to make it okay for me, have to make me feel better about this.

So yeah, it’s a lot of reframing of ideas.

Grace Koinange:  Absolutely. And it reduces confidence they can see. And so at 3:00 AM, knowing I am confident and this is what’s going to happen. I won’t waver, and it’s through love and support. And I think children, once we are consistent with the message and we are confident about what we are saying and what we are doing, they feel supported. They feel loved. They feel like you got this.

Janet Lansbury:  Right.

Grace Koinange:  So when we waver back and forth, it becomes confusing. And they’re like, are we communicating this? Or are you saying this? It’s like having a relationship with a couple arguing about, “I hear you say this, but you’re doing this.” Right?

Then the child is really telling you, “You’re not saying what you’re doing.”

So staying confident within what you decided to do. And that’s why… Take time to think about the process. Take time to think about what we want to do. Children love anybody who can exude confidence because they are confident humans. They are true to themselves. They know what they need, and they need an adult who is unwavering and makes them feel safe and who makes them feel like you got it. I don’t need to worry about it. I don’t need to worry about my bedtime because you have it.

Janet Lansbury:  Right. Because if we’re wavering, how are they supposed to approach this challenge, whatever it is, with confidence? We’re shaking their confidence, in other words. But yeah, I’ve spent a lot of time telling myself all these things, whenever I had to do anything that my children might have not totally signed on to. So this is all wonderful.

Thank you so much. You’re such a gift. You really know this topic inside and out, and I really appreciate you sharing so much of your wisdom with us.

Grace Koinange:  Thank you so much, Janet.

Janet Lansbury:  Thank you. And I’ll be posting Grace’s contact information and her website for anyone who would like to contact her about consulting. I’ll have all that information here in the notes on this podcast and also in the transcript. So thank you so much again.

Grace Koinange:  Thank you.

You can learn more about Grace’s consulting work and contact her HERE.

Also, please check out some of the other podcasts on my website, janetlansbury.com. There are many of them, and they’re all indexed by subject and category so you should be able to find whatever topic you might be interested in. Both of my books are available in paperback at Amazon: No Bad Kids, Toddler Discipline Without Shame and Elevating Child Care, A Guide To Respectful Parenting.  You can get them in eBook at Amazon, Apple, Google Play, or barnesandnoble.com, and in audio at Audible.com. Actually, you can get a free audio copy of either book at Audible by following the link in the liner notes of this podcast.

Thank you so much for listening and for all your kind support. We can do this.

The post A Holistic Approach to Baby and Toddler Sleep (with Grace Koinange) appeared first on Janet Lansbury.

Transcript of “Morning Meltdowns – Asserting Our Boundaries with Connection and Confidence”

Hi. This is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled. Today I have a question from a parent and what I found very interesting about this is she brings up several ideas that are commonly misunderstood in terms of my advice. Ostensibly, her concern is about her daughter struggling in the mornings, melting down and not giving her mother a chance to take care of her own needs without calling and calling for her, even though her father is there to help at those times. But the terms I want to discuss here are attachment, connection, comfort, and then overall boundaries.

All right, let’s start with the email I received:

Dear Janet, for years, your podcast has been relatable and reassuring. As kiddo S nears age four though, I’m finding fewer resources that address our situation. And between preschool and pediatrician visits, S checks out as developmentally typical.

One problem is that she starts nearly every day screaming and wailing. It seems attachment-related. She’ll sometimes walk into our bed and snuggle happily for a bit, but our routine is that I, mama, do the bedtime routine, and dad does the morning routine. So when I get up, S starts screaming for me. She and her dad are super close and he’s there to comfort her, but she’ll just scream, ‘MommEEE, MommEEE!’ over and over. She usually calls me mama or mommy, so this mommeee thing only happens when she’s melted down and it gets right under my skin and makes me want to run away, which is probably what it feels to her like I’m doing.

I say calmly that I need to take care of myself and that daddy is there. Sometimes he’s away for work and I give her the choice of coming with me while I pee and brush teeth or staying in her room or ask if she’d like me to get her ready first. The answer is always a screaming no, but I don’t stick around. I go brush my teeth, et cetera. And sometimes I show my exasperation.

When it comes time to get out of bed and she’s flopping around, kicking the bed, grabbing at me and screaming, sometimes I’ve broken down myself and yelled or even cried. It just wears me down to start every day like this, especially when we don’t have much time together before work. There are plenty of other things that induce ear-splitting screams these days. And when her dad is around, I’m more likely to try to escape within the house. So I don’t know if that’s challenging her security, but I don’t leave the house. We don’t have locks on doors and we’ve never put her in time out. So I don’t really understand where that desperation is coming from, except that it’s clear she is completely out of control and beyond reasoning within those moments.

You talk about connecting first and validating while holding boundaries, but at what point do you accept that that isn’t working and hold the boundary? For example, I wake up needing to pee and I have to get ready for work. How long should I spend offering comfort before I make good on my plan to take care of my needs?

All right. First, I want to talk about what is likely going on with this four-year-old. It’s very common actually for a child to have difficulty in transitions. I talk a lot about that. Transitions are big SOS times for young children commonly. It’s hard for them to pass from point A to point B. And the hardest transition of the day, the most common one for children to struggle with is the bedtime transition because they’re tired, we’re tired. We want it to go smoothly. We want it to be a nice sendoff so we can feel good about our relationship and that our child is a happy child and all those things. We need to feel content ourselves and have a nice sleep.

The second hardest one is the morning transition, because that’s also a time that’s a difficult physical transition. We’re in dreamland, we’re in a resting state. We have to kind of pull ourselves all together and get ourselves up to face the day. Our blood pressure’s lowered. We feel slow and sluggish. Some people jump right out of bed. They’re in a great mood. One of my children used to do that, but a lot of other children and adults like me don’t feel at our best in the morning. It’s a tough transition to leave that comfortable state and be in an awake state, particularly when we have challenges to face.

I actually wrote back to this parent asking her a couple of quick questions so that I could get a little more information before I did this podcast. And one of the questions was: are her family or their daughter experiencing transitions right now? And as it turns out, the parent got back to me and said:

“Yes, we moved to a new state in July, which S adapted to exuberantly. But on the same day I started a new job, my partner started traveling for work part-time. So I’m solo parenting sometimes. And S started her first official preschool after mostly being with us and a tiny in-home daycare during the pandemic.”

So she’s starting a preschool where there are more challenges than the place she was used to. It’s more of a school situation instead of a tiny in-home daycare. I imagine there are more children. And even if it wasn’t a more challenging situation on its face, it’s a new situation. So yeah, she’s in a transition here. She’s got to get up, she’s got to face the day, go to school. That doesn’t mean that she’s not having a great time at school. In fact, her mother said right at the beginning that between preschool and pediatrician visits, that her daughter checks out as developmentally typical. So she must be doing fine at school. But she’s got to rise up to that occasion. And it’s just a lot for certain temperaments and certain types of people. And this girl sounds like that intense, sensitive in those ways kind of person. So she’s getting lost in this feeling.

And then her mother wants to have a very reasonable boundary that the father’s going to take over in the mornings and the mother’s going to get herself ready for her day and have that time. Those are great boundaries to set, but we can’t expect ever that this boundary or any boundary is going to be met with, “Okay, fine,” by a child, especially an intense child like this, who does not seem to be a morning person, at least not at this time with all the changes that have been happening. This is when her feelings are overwhelming her.

So the parent’s needs are in conflict with the child’s wants, which is to hold on to her mother and be able to vent all these feelings with her mother too, probably. But her mother needs that time away, and that’s absolutely reasonable and healthy. And it’s what I would recommend to this parent — that she do that, because that’s the basic need for the parent: to have a couple of minutes in the morning to get herself together. But her daughter is not going to accept that easily. And she’s doing exactly what she’s supposed to do, which is vent all her overwhelmed feelings, using this opportunity to vent them all. Maybe even holding onto them a bit longer because her mother isn’t being clear and clean with her boundary. She senses her mother is trying to placate her, that her mother is exasperated, annoyed, that it’s getting to her. Her mother isn’t showing that she’s comfortable separating with a child that’s not saying, “Okay, sure, I’m fine with that. Go enjoy getting ready.”

I would encourage this parent and any parent to expect and normalize, if not melting down over this in the morning, maybe it’ll be something else. And this is a very common issue — this difficult morning thing. I’ll just read a quick note from another parent with the same issue.

I’m having big problems with my two-and-a-half-year-old son. In brief, the mornings are utter hell. Every single morning he wakes early and screams until we get him up. He’s done this his whole life, literally from day one. Now he can talk. He demands one parent or the other, and then it’s just a good hour of demanding everything and total meltdown if he doesn’t get his way. He wants to be in the kitchen or watching TV or eating cereals still in his PJs, not in his PJs, et cetera. The list goes on, it’s such a horrendous way to start the day for everybody and we’re at a breaking point. We’d love your help.

So to both parents: decide what you’re going to allow your children to do, understand that they’re probably going to have a meltdown no matter what, that there’s really no getting around it. That if they’re expressing this, it’s the healthiest thing for them to do and something they need to clear to be able to be that person they need to be to do their day.

A lot of children struggle with this and we can get caught up in trying to please them and then nothing works. And then now we’re resentful and we’re annoyed because we don’t want our child to be upset, but our child’s getting upset anyway.

So reframe this, normalize that your child has tough mornings, at least right now at this time of life, it’s something they’re going through. It’s okay if we see it as okay.

And then we can do all the things that this first mother wants to do: feel connected.

I’m going to talk about comfort because comfort doesn’t come directly into these kinds of boundaries where we’re trying to separate. We can’t comfort our child while we’re separating. What gives them comfort is that we’re clear, we’re confident, we accept that they feel however they feel, and that we see it as healthy and okay and acceptable for them to be in floods of tears in the morning. I really feel for this parent when she says, “Especially when we don’t have much time together before work.” Yeah, we just want it to be nice. We want it to be smooth. We want our own positive sendoff for our day. If we could reframe comfort and connection, then maybe we could see this as positive and we could feel better about it.

The first thing that caught my attention in this note was that the parent said the problem is she starts nearly every day screaming and wailing. “It seems attachment-related”. So that’s a big, scary way for a parent to see this, that it’s attachment-related. We all know how important secure attachment is and that it’s our job to develop that for our child. But secure attachment is actually not this fragile delicate thing.

Bethany Saltman was a guest on my podcast and she’s done extensive research into the science of attachment. She has a book called Strange Situation: A Mother’s Journey into the Science of Attachment. She was concerned for herself that she wasn’t maybe securely attached to her parent, and therefore she wasn’t raising a securely attached child. She found at the end of this fascinating journey that yes, she was. That she was attached and she was promoting that with her child and that it really was not that complicated.

So it’s not about that I want to be separate from you in the morning to take care of myself. That is not about developing an insecure attachment. That has nothing to do with it.

But what can get in the way is if we feel annoyed and resentful consistently with our child, that we’re not delighting in them. Obviously, this parent is sometimes and she’s giving me the difficult times here to work on. But this can start to seep into the way we feel about our child. And really it’s on us.

Not to say it’s anyone’s fault, because I understand both where the child is coming from and where the parent is coming from here. But it’s on us to normalize for ourselves our child feelings, even if they’re about the choices that we make, or especially if they are, and to feel confident in what we’re doing taking that time to be alone.

I wouldn’t even have her daughter hanging out with her while she’s getting ready. She said, when the father’s not there, sometimes she offers her daughter the choice to hang out with her. I would even then take my time, close the door and say, “This is what I’m doing now. You can bang on the door and you can yell at me and you can be really, really mad. I’m going to do this because this is what I need.” It’s great modeling for our child about boundaries, letting them know that sometimes other people’s wants come above theirs.

And most importantly, it’s teaching her it’s really okay to feel this. It’s really okay to fall apart and just feel like nothing’s working… and then this incredible thing… I actually have to share this, because when I asked her these couple more questions, one of the things she said when she wrote back to me is:

“This morning, I wrote to you from the basement crying with noise-canceling headphones on after leaving my miserable child with her loving dad and thinking, ‘We can’t go on like this.’ Minutes later, the two of them bound down the stairs, hand in hand, grinning. Kiddo fully dressed and happy and without any apparent resentment or damage from this daily misery.”

So yes. Because her daughter knew she needed to do that. She sensed that was what she needed. They clear those feelings and they turn on a dime and they’re happy and they don’t have the resentment, but the problem is we can hold on to it. And that’s just poison in our relationship that we don’t want and we really can eliminate by changing our expectations a little here and normalizing that mornings are hard, transitions are hard, especially when you have all these other transitions going on in your life, these bigger ones. Moving houses. Yeah, she may have been on a high about that, but that doesn’t mean it’s not still challenging and an off-balance kind of feeling in some ways. And the new school, especially, changes in schedules, yeah.

I want to get into a little bit about connection because this mother says, “You talk about connecting first and validating while holding boundaries, but at what point do you accept that isn’t working and hold the boundary?”

I’m going to describe what I believe connecting really is, and also what works best for us and for our child. Connecting is the way we are direct, clear, honest in expressing our boundary to our child. So we’re showing them us and our needs, and then we’re seeing them as maybe being in conflict with those needs, not liking that we said that and that we have this boundary. We’re accepting however they feel about that and allowing them to express it for as long as they need to in whatever safe way they can while we follow through with our boundary, which means in this case, we are leaving, leaving her to be with her dad, “while I go do this.” That’s what the boundary is.

I can’t set that boundary if I’m going to stay here and wait for you to be okay with it. That’s not setting a boundary.

So connection is that honesty and that directness. And then the acceptance, on the other side, of whatever our child feels. That we’re not trying to make them feel a different way about this. That we are okay. In fact, we want them to share the way they actually feel in that moment, even if it doesn’t make us feel as good as if they agreed to what we asked or the boundary that we set. That’s a real connection.

And that’s also why you don’t hear me sharing to make a game out of gaining cooperation from our child or setting a boundary. That isn’t to say that I think it’s harmful or wrong for a parent to do that. To me though, it’s not a genuine connection. It’s: Let’s do this flashy thing so that you’ll be okay with this. It’s more of an avoidance than an actual connection.

I’m a very playful, silly person, and I think that genuine silliness and playfulness can come when we’ve gotten to that point where we understand that our child maybe needs to blow up at us or around us and that blowing up is going to sound like mommy, mommy, mommy, and all the annoying sounds in the book. That’s going to be part of it, especially for a child who’s four years old and has words.

It’s okay to want to avoid connecting with that. That makes sense, but that’s what it is to me. When we have our expectations in order and we’ve normalized this, then from there, we can have genuine fun with it maybe. “Oh, where’s your dad. Let’s get our magnifying glasses and try to find him. I don’t know, maybe he’s hiding in the closet. We’ve got to find him because I’ve got to go do my thing.” So we can be silly when we’re unafraid. When we’re clear. When we understand what boundaries feel like, which is often I’m clear and direct and you’re unhappy about it. That’s what setting a boundary is a lot of the time with children.

And then comfort, again, is the comfort that my mom means what she says is, that she’s okay with my feelings. It’s not the same as I’m going to sit here with you and hug you and hold you and inside myself, get more annoyed, feeling trapped.

This mother talks about wanting to run away from her daughter in the house. I totally understand that, but consider the power that you’re giving to a four-year-old girl. Like I said, I’ve been there. But that we would have to try to run away from our child because we’re so uncomfortable and annoyed and afraid, that doesn’t help us. That doesn’t make us feel good about her or about ourselves.

And none of this means…  Even though you hear me saying, “Face the music. It’s okay. Expect this,” that doesn’t mean there aren’t things that we can do to make it smoother. I’m going to talk a little about that, but with the caveat that it may not work because maybe she, again, really needs to cry and melt down so she can go off happily smiling with her dad and have a great day.

One thing you could do is consider talking to her the day before, maybe this parent has done this, about, “Okay, we have this hard time in the morning sometimes where you want me and it’s your dad’s time to be with you and your time to be with your dad and for him to help you get up and take care of your needs. And you want me. It seems like you’re really having a hard time, really uncomfortable. What can we do to make that better for you? What could we do to make that easier?”

One thing might be that there’s a special snack that she likes in her room because she might be a little hungry or blood sugar might be a little low. Something safe and good for her that you don’t mind having. Give her some options or let her explore that with you — what might help.

And then I would be very clear with the step-by-step of what you’re going to do. I’d be clear right there that, “You can yell at me and be really mad at me and you can pound on the door and call me mommy, mommy. You can do all that stuff. I’m still going to love you, but I’m still going to do my thing.”

That’s helping to set it up for her and for yourself. It’s almost like you’ll be following a script there. And that helps you to get in the groove and her to get in the groove a little bit easier and it may make it all lift quicker. Who knows? It may not, but it may, and it’ll feel good to you to be facing all these truths.

That’s another thing about connection. It’s facing the truths. It’s being brave in that way. A real connection. Imagine that with a little child.

And I can hear people asking, “Well, authentic connection… Does that mean I tell her I’m annoyed and it’s upsetting me and I don’t like it?” Again, that’s the part that we can fix, or at least we can work on. It’s not her responsibility to keep us from being annoyed. It’s our ability to frame the situation for ourselves in a way that’s reasonable and know that what she’s doing is normal.

The sounds will still grate on us for sure. The whiny sounds or the screaming our name, but not as much as if we’re feeling as this parent has, which it sounds like is very responsible, unsure, worried about attachment, worried about connection, worried about comfort. That’s what amplifies the annoyance factor in our children’s behavior. It makes us worry. It makes us feel wrong. It makes us doubt ourselves. And we just want to have a nice morning.

Free yourself of those feelings that are getting in your way and remember what you saw there. Your child with her loving dad, the two of them, father and daughter, bounding down the stairs, hand in hand, grinning. Fully dressed, happy, no resentment, no damage from this daily misery.

It’s not misery for her. It’s catharsis. It’s clearing something so I can get on with my day.

I really hope some of this helps. Thank you to this parent and all the parents who reach out to me with your stories. I see so much of myself in your children and in you, and these are great reminders for me. Thank you. And thank you so much for listening.

Please check out some of the other podcasts on my website, janetlansbury.com. There are many of them, and they’re all indexed by subject and category so you should be able to find whatever topic you might be interested in. Both of my books are available in paperback at Amazon: No Bad Kids, Toddler Discipline Without Shame and Elevating Child Care, A Guide To Respectful Parenting.  You can get them in eBook at Amazon, Apple, Google Play or barnesandnoble.com, and in audio at Audible.com. Actually, you can get a free audio copy of either book at Audible by following the link in the liner notes of this podcast.

Thank you so much for listening and all your kind support. We can do this.

The post Morning Meltdowns – Asserting Our Boundaries with Connection and Confidence appeared first on Janet Lansbury.

Transcript of “Helping Toddlers Get Their Social Mojo Back”

Hi, this is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled. Today, I had the idea to try something a little different, going through my inbox and pulling out some of the questions that are in the same vein so that I could do one podcast incorporating several questions. One thing I discovered is that I’m actually really good at making a connection between disparate things, which reminds me of the difficulty I used to have with multiple-choice tests, where I just wanted to say “all of the above” because I could figure out a way to connect all of them. But anyway, I settled on a few questions that I received that are all about transitioning to a new normal, now that, hopefully, the pandemic is mostly behind us and children are starting to socialize again. We’re all starting to socialize again, and there’s some difficulty children are having in the transition.

Okay. So, I’m going to start by reading one of the emails I received. So, here we go:

Hi, Janet. Thank you for all of your work. I’ve read your books and learned so much from your podcast. My question has to do with having a COVID baby. My son was just six weeks old when our region went into the first complete lockdown. We’ve worked hard to keep him safe. I was planning to go back to work part time when he was 12 weeks old, but was able to stay home with him full-time in response to the pandemic. We have seen close friends out of doors and at a distance periodically and regularly FaceTimed with family, both for our own sanity and to share him with the people we love in a way that felt safe. Now that all adults in our sphere are fully vaccinated, we are moving towards ‘normal socializing.’

I took him to see my family for the first time, since he was two weeks old. And what became clear is that while he is very social and outgoing from a distance, he seems deeply distressed by another adult touching or holding him. He’s 16 months old and I know that separation anxiety is normal for a child his age, and that it is likely exacerbated by his experience of isolation due to the pandemic. My question has to do with how to best think about supporting him. It seems to me that the situation calls for a nexus of two positions from your work. One, asking a child and respecting their response when a relative or other person wants to hold them and politely declining if your child indicates no. And two, having a boundary and allowing for and welcoming the feelings your child has about that boundary, without changing said boundary.

My family and my mental health need for me to go back to work part time. What does it look like to introduce a babysitter or daycare to a child who is frightened of being touched by another adult? What kind of balance should I strive for between respecting his consent, regarding being touched by another adult, and considering having another caretaker as a need of our family and therefore, a boundary?

On our visit to my family, I really tried to stay very calm, warmly encouraging, and empathetic when he was freaking out about being touched to avoid giving him the message that he was correct and needed me to swoop in and rescue him. By the end of the four day visit, he actually reached his arms up once to my mom and once to my sister, requesting to be picked up when he realized that I wasn’t in the room with him and got scared. It seemed like he realized they would help him by bringing him to me.

They did. I was very encouraged by this. I’m sure I’m not the only parent who has versions of this question. Thank you again for all you do.

Okay. So, one of the things I appreciated about this note and actually all the notes that I’m going to be sharing today is how much these parents get it, at least they get what I’m trying to communicate. Yeah, she nailed it with the nexus of the two positions, respecting our child, and also sometimes having to be the adult that sees beyond what our child wants in that moment and has to have a boundary like, “I need to leave you with this person now.” Children are able to transition into new experiences, but most of them will have some kind of emotional process around that. There are the rare few children that, sure they’ll do something new and not have any uncomfortable feelings about that.

I was not one of those children. I’m still kind of like that. They had a report card in my kindergarten. I remember it was not about letter grades, but there were like three check boxes if you’re able to do something or you’re still struggling to do something, or you are quite capable of doing something. And the one I struggled in was “meets new situations with confidence.” That was something that my teacher noticed was difficult for me. I think I even had that two years running with two different teachers. And that makes sense to me where I am now. I remember being very fearful. I remember having a difficult process around starting a new class. And from what I know about the way I was raised, I was pitied for those feelings and talked out of them somewhat. I didn’t feel empowered in expressing them, that it was normal to have them.

And it really, really is. It’s very normal and expected for even children that might not be considered highly sensitive… life contains so many transitions for them internally, in their family life, and this is another big one that a lot of children are facing. Going back to school, back to play with friends, transitioning to a new caregiver, being around a lot of other people again.

So, I just want to frame this, that, yes, this is absolutely normal and expected for him to be having a transition. And at 16 months old, he’s also at the end of the classic months for separation anxiety. So, there’s that as well.

One thing I zeroed in on is she said, “He seems deeply distressed by another adult touching or holding him.” And I don’t know that I would assume that he’s deeply distressed. Sometimes children, because they do express things so fully, they put it so out there, it does seem like it’s stronger and deeper than it maybe is.

I mean, I’m not saying I know what this boy is feeling, but the way I would perceive it to help him is that he’s just saying, “Hey, I don’t know these people. I don’t want these people to touch me. This is weird. No, I want to stay with you, that you’re the person I’ve been hanging out with all these months.” Oftentimes, children in a transition are seeing those kinds of things and they’re not saying this is such a deeply distressing, scary thing. And why does it matter how we perceive? Because the way we perceive will decide how we feel about it ourselves. If we feel anxious or that he should be okay with all this and what’s wrong with him, if we feel like, “Oh my goodness, he’s deeply distressed and disturbed by this,” then it’s going to be harder for us to do what this parent is actually doing, which is trusting his process.

And that’s what children need from us most, to trust that child’s individual process around this individual situation, and this unique transition. As she said, this is exacerbated by his experience of isolation due to the pandemic. Exactly. So, how do we balance our wish to respect him with also not accommodating, and as she said so well, not giving him the message that he’s correct? That this is a very scary situation that his parent agrees with it by swooping in and rescuing him?

So, finding that balance where we’re being respectful to his wishes, but we’re also not afraid of his feelings, and he has a right to them. Expressing those feelings is exactly how he will get from point A to point B. If he can feel comfortable in that discomfort period, he will transition successfully into this next phase.

The way that would look, she says, “On our visit to my family, I really tried to stay very calm, warmly encouraging, and empathetic when he was freaking out about being touched.”

So, yes, this parent sounds like she’s handling it all brilliantly, empathizing, not in a way that pities, “Oh gosh, you don’t want to be touched,” but, “Wow, yeah, that’s different. She’s touching you, you didn’t like that. Maybe that seemed too soon for you, we’ll give you a little more time.” So, giving him that time, but responding and reflecting his feelings in a way that shows that you expect them, that you welcome them, and you’re interested in them, and you’re not afraid of them. I would know in your heart, he’s going to be able to do this.

She says, “By the end of the four day visit, he actually reached his arms up once to my mom and once to my sister, requesting to be picked up when he realized that I wasn’t in the room with him and got scared. It seemed like he realized they would help him by bringing him to me. They did.”

So, yes, that’s very exciting. That’s just proof he’s on his way and he’s just in the middle right now.

It sounds like this parent really is respecting him and also respecting his process and not approaching it with her own fear and concern that he’s not capable or that it’s never going to happen. So, it will happen. He’s doing it in his small way. And then, yeah, if she needs to leave while she’s with them and go to the bathroom or do something, she should absolutely leave and let him decide whether he wants to go on someone else’s arms. And now that they’ve done this thing where they brought him to her, it’s also fine for them to not bring him to the parent, if she’s busy, especially, but allow him to maybe share his feelings in their arms.

And that’s what I would do if I was a caregiver that was coming in to take care of someone else’s child and the child was left with me. I would want to encourage, rather than discourage the child to feel their feelings. And it can be the hardest thing to do to let them grieve that loss of that person for a few minutes. Yes, it’s their choice to be physically attached to us 24/7 maybe, but that’s not as healthy for us or for them in the relationship. Relationships are about: sometimes we’re together and we’re very together, other times we’re apart. We can be all right that way too. A and he will be, but again, not without a process.

It sounds like it’s going really, really well. So, it’s not something we have to train children to, it’s not something we have to force or try to make happen. I’m not leaving you with them just to test it, I’m leaving because I need to go do something and I’m trusting that you’re with safe people who you do know a little bit. I’m not doing it. As soon as I get there, I’m waiting a little bit for you to get to know them. And I’m being clear, I’m being honest with you.

All of that is part of the respectful piece in this. And I’m letting you decide whether you go close to them or not. That’s where the consent part comes in. So, it should be an organic process. It’s not about training a child or doing something artificial, it’s about living our life with the child.

And when introducing a new caregiver or a childcare, you want to do this very gradually, ideally taking a few days where you were there with the caregiver. It’s even a little more important that this is done carefully with a childcare situation, because that is even more of a transition for a child who now has to go to a different place, be with different people.

If they’re in their home, I would have the person come while you’re there, and they’re following you around, being with you while you care for your child, doing all the things that they would do. This could just be for a part of a day or a few hours.

And then the second day you would maybe leave for a few minutes periodically to do the things you need to do and come back, check on how it’s going, and have the caregiver allow your child to feel however he feels and encourage him to share that, and just be there, allowing the adjustment to go gradually this way.

So, here’s another similar question:

Hello, Janet. My question is about my daughter’s socialization. She is a bright and active child. She started to crawl and walk very early and she was always very curious of other people, then the pandemic happened. We almost completely stopped meeting people and having play dates. After seven months in the pandemic, we started to see a couple of friends for outdoor social distancing play dates, and it all went well. She was 14 months at that time.

In the spring of this year, my husband and I got vaccinated and we started to have a babysitter come over a few hours a few times per week. My daughter adapted quickly and had fun playing with her. Since then, she had a few sitters and other than some separation anxiety at first, it all went well.

However, when we resumed to go to the playground, she started to act frozen and didn’t want to leave my lap for the time we were there. The change in the behavior happened with our baby friend too. She would have a frozen look and would not want to interact for a long time.

A few months ago, we met a new friend with two boys and the first couple of times my daughter just took a long time to be her normal self. But at the last play date, she refused to leave her stroller for the whole time. I felt like she didn’t have any fun. She looked uneasy and almost anxious if the boys would approach.

Whenever we are in an uncomfortable for her social situation, I try to just stay connected to her and do not push her to do anything, offering her activities, snacks, toys, just as I normally would. She’s almost 23 months now and I’m a little worried whether it’s a normal developmental stage or she didn’t have enough social exposure for the past year and developed some anxiety of kids. Should I keep arranging play dates or is it better to avoid the uncomfortable situations? I don’t want to give her anxiety and I’m just wondering if there’s a way to help her enjoy playing with the other children.

Okay. Now I’m going to read one more along those lines:

I have noticed recently that my daughter, 19 months, will freeze up when another child approaches her on the playground. At first, I thought it was due to overstimulation, but it happened this morning when it was only her and one other child. She will freeze and a few minutes later, will break down and sob. Have you seen this before? How can we support her? She’s a pandemic baby, so she hasn’t been around a lot of children, but I don’t see other children behave this way.

Okay. So, both of these are children’s individual transitional processes. And straight out, both I would say sound normal and expected.

So, the first one, all very promising that she got accustomed to the new carers, the new babysitter, had fun with her. So, that’s all a really good sign. This parent says she always had social instincts, always very curious about other people, and she’s still showing that. But then the parent says when they resumed to go to the playground, she started to act frozen. So, that is a child overwhelmed, but overwhelmed in a way that they are still functioning, still taking the situation in.

And one of the differences between an adult who’s a babysitter and a toddler with peers is that peers are very unpredictable. Adults, they’re sensitive to you, their behavior is predictable, it’s calm. When you’re with other children at this age, these children are very surprising. They’re all over the place. They’re not as easy to feel a sense of control around.

So, yeah, it’s a lot to take in and it sounds like that’s what she’s doing when she looks frozen. She’s watching, trying to understand how this goes, how other children behave, and what you can expect from them, and where you fit in with them, and all of those things. So, that is a healthy process.

Lots of children that I’ve worked with in my classes, they take longer. And it doesn’t even mean that they’re “shy” or introverted. Oftentimes, there’re very strong personalities that want to come in to the situation knowing what to do, taking their time, and that’s just smart.

I mean, compared to adults, young children could seem like wild animals to another child. You really don’t know what they’re going to do or where you fit with them right away. So, it makes sense that this maybe will take a little longer for a girl like this who does have social instincts and probably wants to come into the situation with aplomb.

So if she wanted to stay on the parent’s lap, I would have her on my lap and be very comfortable about that. What we want to do again is encourage that process. So, instead of feeling doubt and wanting her to get in there and play or trying to make it happen somehow, better to trust, better to believe in our child, that she’s doing it her way, which is the best way for any child, and let her do it. It sounds like this parent is doing that because she says, “Whenever we are in an uncomfortable for her social situation, I try to just stay connected to her and do not push her to do anything.”

But then she does say she offers her activities, snacks, toys, just as she normally would, and that’s the only part that stuck out for me a little. I love this parent’s attitude about not pushing her to do anything. That’s absolutely the best trusting, most confidence-building attitude we can have with children about just about anything. But I’m not sure why she’s offering her activities and toys when she’s in a situation with other children. Personally, I wouldn’t. I would trust that she’s in a very entertaining, engaging situation, just being in the presence of other children, and that she doesn’t need to be entertained on the side or by me as her parent. So, she can have the choice of: she’s with me, watching, or she’s deciding to step in.  And I think that might actually be a very natural way of encouraging her to step in. If we’re making it fun for her to just stay with us, she has less reason to. And also, it can be distracting her from this work she’s doing.

One of the things I say to parents when their child is the one that’s sitting on their lap and watching, is that child’s learning the most in this situation right now. That child is studying all these other children, learning about them, the kind of learning that will help her to get comfortable and want to take a chance and go join somebody and play.

So that’s a little adjustment I would suggest to this parent that I think will aid in this transition, which is otherwise going very well.

And the fact that she said she played with the boys, and then the last time she refused to leave her stroller. So, yeah, I would just say she chose to stay and that could be a lot of things:

It could be that something happened the last time with those boys that threw her a little off balance and she wants to get a grip on it and learn more and just watch for a bit.

Or it could be that she’s reading something in their energy in that particular day that’s a little different or a little intense. She’s not sure about it.

Or it could be that now, maybe there’s something going on with her and the parent. It’s possible that if the parent is helping entertain her at these times, that she’s reluctant now to let go of the parent and the control that she feels around that.

But again, all of these come from strength, not weakness, not a problem.

The parent said, “I felt like she didn’t have any fun and she looked uneasy and almost anxious if boys would approach.” So, yeah. Fun for young children doesn’t always mean that they’re smiling and laughing and playing. They can have fun learning and watching and studying.

And if she looked anxious if the boys would approach, I would be there for her, just be ready in case they reached out and touched her and she didn’t want that.

This parent’s ultimate concern is, she said, “She’s almost 23 months now and I’m a little worried whether it’s a normal developmental stage or she didn’t have enough social exposure for the past year and developed some anxiety of kids.” So, I wouldn’t guess she has anxiety of kids, unless it’s just like the normal… yeah, it’s a little scary, throws her off balance a little.

She says, “Should I keep arranging play dates?” Yes, I absolutely would. If it’s fun for you, if it’s comfortable for you. But again, not if you feel like you have to make it work for her, if you have to bring toys and entertain her. Just being there, present for her is enough, and is actually the best thing. And trusting her to do what she’s able to do that day.

She says, “I don’t want to give her anxiety and I’m just wondering if there’s a way to help her enjoy.” So, yeah, the way to help her enjoy and not give her anxiety is that big T word again: Trust. And she will surprise you when you let go of this.

Then this other parent is echoing that situation. Her toddler’s 19 months and when another child approaches her, will freeze, and a few minutes later, will break down and sob. So, this is overwhelmed that’s got a little more emotion behind it, it sounds like. Releasing the tension by crying.

What we want to do here is we don’t want to add our own pressure. That’s all. We want to just care for our own fears around this, our own anxiety.

This parent says, “I don’t see other children behave this way.” Well, you just heard about other children, older children, behaving that way as well. So, yes, they absolutely do. It makes perfect sense since she hasn’t been around other children. You can absolutely trust this.

The freedom in this is the trust, and that we know we don’t have to do anything to make this happen. Just believe in our child and keep showing up without expectation that they’re going to do this, that, or the other. Then, what will happen is you will be surprised because they do and it will happen in a way that you didn’t expect.

And the way I would acknowledge her, the way I would handle her sobbing is to be available, not grab her and pick her up, just be there, getting down at her level, eye contact. “Wow, that seems really close for you.” Or, “This is new. This is a new person.  You don’t know this person and he’s coming really close. I hear you, you have feelings about that and that made you cry.”

So, we can say just what we see. We don’t have to try to figure out: Is she scared? Is she tentative? Is she surprised? We can just say what we see, which is, “Wow, he came close and you cried.” But not from a place of pity or that we’re worried that this is a terrible sign, that she’s not going to be able to be with other children. They haven’t been around a lot of children and it’s a new thing. They will adapt. What we want to do is not add our own tension to the situation, because children will absorb that as well. And then it makes it harder for them. The pressure gets really intense. Because children will feel that we wish she would do this, or we wish he would do that. That we want this so much. Or we’re so afraid.

And we’re not going to be able to erase that completely, of course, but it’s just something to be aware of — that our own worries and wishes and hopes in the moment can just make it even take a little longer for what we want.

So staying behind them in that way, being interested in their process and their feelings, not wishing they were doing anything differently, to observe with interest. And if we observe our child in these situations where they seem frozen, we will see the wheels turning. We will see how much they’re taking in and absorbing and understanding.

I really hope some of that helps.

Please check out some of the other podcasts on my website, janetlansbury.com. There are many of them, and they’re all indexed by subject and category so you should be able to find whatever topic you might be interested in. Both of my books are available in paperback at Amazon: No Bad Kids, Toddler Discipline Without Shame and Elevating Child Care, A Guide To Respectful Parenting.  You can get them in eBook at Amazon, Apple, Google Play or barnesandnoble.com, and an audio at Audible.com. Actually, you can get a free audio copy of either book at Audible by following the link in the liner notes of this podcast.

Thank you so much for listening and all your kind support. We can do this.

The post Helping Toddlers Get Their Social Mojo Back appeared first on Janet Lansbury.

Transcript of “My Child Says No to Everything”

Hi, this is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled. Today, I have a question from a parent that I received in an email about her child who is four years old, and seems very stuck in this resistant negative response. He keeps saying no to everything, even things like presents. And this parent is frustrated and feels like she’s maybe not handling it in the best way and has asked for some help.

Okay. Here’s the note that I received:

Hi Janet, my husband and I are relatively new followers of your work and I’ve learned so much from your podcasts. I have a question that I have not seen addressed in any of your work so far and I’m hoping you can help.

My son soon to be four years old has always been a bit emotional. He’s our firstborn and we have a two-year-old daughter. However, I’ve seen an increase in his emotions progressively over the two years. And we have a new behavior that I am totally stumped by.

When my daughter was two months old, my husband suffered a massive stroke and this event was a catalyst for a series of rough months with my son. He would have pretty major tantrums, lots of crying and whining and lots and lots of “no!” This was all very understandable given the shakeup of a new baby and then dad being very sick. My husband had a long, tough recovery, but after life started to settle back in to our new “normal post stroke”, we were able to work with our son on the tantrums and they seemed less and less frequent.

However, this “no” behavior continues and has gotten even worse over the last six to twelve months. Every single thing we ask of him is “no.” It’s time to go to school. No. It’s time to go outside. No. It’s time to go home. No It’s time for a birthday party. No. It’s time for Santa to come. No.

Sometimes it is as simple as an emphatic no. And sometimes this increases to more of a tantrum with crying and lots of no, no, no. Every day starts with him saying, “No, I don’t want to go to school.” Usually with some crying at drop-off. Then when we pick him up it’s, “No, I want to stay.” With crying on the way home.

We have tried ignoring, acknowledging, redirecting, talking about it, but no matter what we have done, it seems the “no” behavior continues. He even says no to getting presents. In fact, when it comes to giving my son anything new, he not only says no, but adds that he wants to throw it in the trash. He’s very adamant about not wanting it. I usually tell him, “We don’t throw presents or clothes in the trash, but we can put this away. You don’t have to keep it.” Once it’s out of sight. He is sad and says, “No, I do want it.”

Any thoughts on how to best deal with this?

Okay. First, I’d like to give a little context and talk about the word “no,” and words like it that our children use. What’s going on here? What does this mean? And then I’ll offer some suggestions for responding in a way that’s helpful, and maybe talk a little about what gets in our way as parents.

So first a little about the word “no.” This word is one that children realized very young has some oomph to it, has some power to it. Because it’s usually the first word they hear from us where we’re stopping them, correcting behavior. Even if we say it very, very calmly, there’s an edge to it. No. They sense the power in that word.

When they become toddlers and have a developmental need to be more autonomous, then they often latch onto this word “no” as a way of asserting self. Asserting… Well, I have a different point of view than you. This is me. So it’s a very positive word in that sense, if parents could see it that way. I know it’s hard when it seems like our child is just defying us or resisting us. But it is an expressive, powerful word that children use, even in situations… I remember Magda Gerber used to always say, “You offer your toddler an ice cream cone, your toddler’s reaching for it, and while they’re reaching for it, they’re saying,”No!” They need to assert that will. And disagreeing with us is one powerful way to do that.

So, “no,” it’s often more about a feeling for young children than it is a true command. And in this case, it seems this boy is definitely using no to express a feeling or feelings of overwhelm. I can’t handle this right now. I’m not sure. I’m feeling stuck. I don’t have control over this situation. We don’t know exactly what he’s saying. Although the fact that he has a two-year-old sister is certainly a big part of i, and his father having a massive stroke. Yes, there are very out-of-control feelings that children have when their environment changes like that. When the dad that was always very able to take care of them and pick them up or whatever, can’t do those things necessarily, and other family members are frazzled and upset.

All of that is going to feel like a big whoa to a young child. It’s going to be overwhelming. And that’s okay, they can pass through this, but not without some struggle. And what he seems to be expressing in all these situations is that struggle, that emotional struggle that is, again, much more about feeling flooded and overwhelmed about this than actually being decisive and commanding saying, “No, I’ve made this choice and I don’t want this.” It’s not coming from that reasonable place.

And again, that’s often the case with children in these early years, as they struggle to self-regulate. And that’s still a process that goes on until children are adults in their mid-twenties, before we mature in our prefrontal cortex. So we don’t have this ability to control our emotions and be reasonable when we are overwhelmed.

So he’s showing that, yes, he’s still processing these changes in his life, still processing the sister. And the rapid development of his sibling in these first two years means that the older child is going to continue to feel off balance in their expectation of what this child represents in terms of a rival or a force to be reckoned with or someone to deal with.

And then of course our responses as parents… I mean, these parents have gone through an awful lot and it doesn’t make for us to be able to respond calmly as we wish to a lot of the time. Again, that’s totally understandable and okay and nothing to feel ashamed or even concerned about. It’s only for us to be aware that that has an effect on our child. That he’s even more likely to be overwhelmed himself and have more of a struggle to regulate himself, especially in transitions and novel situations that he doesn’t feel complete control over.

So again, I can’t say from this without asking a lot more questions…  and even then I may not be able to figure out why this seems to be escalating over the last six months, she says. But what I do know is that receiving this expression, this no, as a feeling that he has and accepting it and acknowledging it as we carry on helping him to school or whatever it is… we don’t take it as a directive… but to really receive it fully as an emotional response is what’s going to help him to stop doing this. It’s going to help him to feel more understood and therefore settled, even in these unsettling situations.

I mean, the transition to and from school is still very challenging, even for a four-year-old, for a six-year-old, for a five-year-old, for a middle schooler. It’s a lot. It’s like they’ve got to pump themselves up to step up into that situation, that challenging situation. And then they’ve got to decelerate and let go when maybe they’re really into it at that point. Or what often happens is they’re very, very tired by the end of it. They’re exhausted from all the stimulation and the learning and everything. It’s exhausting for a young child to be dealing with all these different people. And this parent says her child is sensitive, so even more so for him. And then it’s like you’re too tired to leave the party once you’ve gotten yourself there. This is a whole other transition that he has to make — to let go of that and go back in the car.

So these things that just to us as reasonable adults seem so easy, for young children and sensitive young children who have had some shifts and difficulties in their family, it’s very, very challenging. And even if we didn’t already know that we know that it’s challenging for him because of the way he’s reacting. He’s showing that he’s challenged. That he needs help.

So what does this look like to accept “no” as a feeling?

“It’s time to go to school.”

“No.”

“You’re not feeling it. You don’t feel ready to go to school or you don’t feel like going to school. You’re saying no to that right now.”

So just letting that have a life. We don’t have to fix it. We don’t have to say, “But you really got to go.” Because that’s going to be implied by us moving forward and saying, “Okay, here’s your shoes. Do you need some help? Happy to dress you if you have time to do that.” Being available for that is a wonderful way to connect before he leaves the house. But not getting intimidated by the no. Uh-oh, he doesn’t want to go to school. What are we going to do now? Maybe it’s the wrong school for him. All of this. I mean, if we have the reasons to believe that, and we get reports from school… Those are reasonable things to decide, but not based on him having this emotional reaction.

That happens sometimes as parents is we get afraid of that. Uh-oh, he doesn’t want to go. So this is a problem. And he’s saying no, so we shouldn’t go.

It’s a feeling. It’s a momentary feeling in this case of overwhelm, some dysregulation. Might not be major, but on some level he’s having what one of my friends called a wobbly. He’s having a wobbly moment around this. So acknowledge the wobbly with love and carry on helping him to get out the door. Don’t take it as fact, take it as feeling.

She said she did try acknowledging, but I’m wondering if she was really able to acknowledge and hold the space for that. Meaning, I’m not sitting here waiting for you to say no until you stop. But I’m letting that feeling have a life and letting it hang in the air without me trying to distract him or squash it, as we of course want to do as parents, because we’re reasonable. And we don’t want to hear that when we’re trying to get out the door.

So, allowing it that space, it takes a lot of bravery on our part, because it feels like if we let the no in, the no is going to win, right? And I still feel like that sometimes when I acknowledge feelings. But what happens is actually the opposite. When we agree with our child’s right to feel no, or to feel whatever, then they’re able to pass through it and feel better. Any feeling.

And sometimes these smaller feelings, these nos, and these words children say are harder to accept than the big tantrums or big meltdowns, because those are easier to recognize as: Oh, okay. My child is having feelings and it’s better for me to just let them be and support them to have these feelings. But these little ones… it is so hard to see it as a feeling, when they’re saying something so wrong and unreasonable and unfair to us. Like, “Come on, you can’t say no. We’ve got to take you. Here’s all the reasons why you shouldn’t say that.” It’s much easier to fall into that with these more minor ways of expressing emotions.

Anyway, I’m not saying this is easy to remember at all. But that can be our goal, that we’re going to be very imperfect at reaching, I’m sure. But seeing it that way, reminding ourselves after, Oh yeah, I did the normal thing, which is telling him all the reasons he needed to go and his friends are going to be there, and come on, doesn’t he want to? Instead of just not being intimidated and welcoming him to say it. “You’re saying no today you got that nos. Yeah, you’re feeling that no this morning. I get it.”

And honestly, I do get it. As I’ve often said, I really get these feelings. I have them too. Oh no, I can’t possibly do this. I don’t want to do this. Why did I sign up for this?  All those feelings come over me. I don’t usually shout no at people, but I have those feelings and it’s overwhelm.

So let’s give some other examples of how to react.

“It’s time to go to school.”

“No.”

“So, ugh, you’re not feeling school this morning. Yikes. Yeah. That’s tough, my love.”

Then at some point make it clear, “We’re still gonna move you forward. We still got to get there, but you can share with me whenever you don’t want to do something. I always want to hear that.”

What’s implied is that we as parents are making the ultimate choice in these situations and children need us to.

“It’s time to go outside.”

“No.”

“Wow, it sounds like you’re not ready or you’re not sure. Well, okay. I’m going to take your hand and let’s get out there because I think you’ll feel better when you’re out there. But you’re feeling fuzzy about this. You’re feeling unsure about this. You don’t know if you want to go right now.”

So that one, maybe there is some room for some choice there. I don’t know. But again, either there is or there isn’t and it’s not about that we have to worry about that he’s saying no.

“It’s time to go home.”

“No.”

“Ugh, It’s so hard to leave school. Yeah, you’re having so much fun.”

But moving him forward, not waiting for him to change his mind because again, it’s a feeling and feelings aren’t for us to put the brakes on for they’re for us to hold space for. Oftentimes in these situations we have to keep moving forward. So we’re helping him to the car. We’re not getting stuck ourselves in the no and letting him stop us. So he can be stuck, but we have to be ideally confident helping him through the transition while welcoming the no.

So there’s no perfect sentence to say, but in the beginning, just to get more comfortable with this, it might be just nodding your head and looking him in the eye and going, “I hear you. I hear what you’re saying, saying no to this.”

And also in this, it seems that this feeling is a bit directed at the parents. And that could be because of the sibling situation, the sister, because there is a feeling that children have of betrayal. Again, it’s a thing of, you brought this other cute person home and you love them as much as you love me. And you said that now I have to share with them. And it does feel like this tremendous betrayal. So it’s normal for children and, I would even say, healthy for children to have these push-us-away behaviors.

But if we take them at their word, at face value, if we take them a little bit personally like that, seeing it as a reasonable choice, rather than an expression of a feeling, then, without meaning to, we tend to increase the discomfort for our child. It’s really almost out of their control when they say these things. But this no is a kind of a no to us. No, everything’s not okay in my world. I’m not happy about everything going on. So in a way it can be a reflection of our child’s hurt feelings too. And that’s what it’s kind of feels like to me in some of this, especially when he says no to getting presents and she says at the end, in fact, when it comes to giving my son anything new, he not only says no, but adds that he wants to throw it in the trash. So that’s a real dig at the parent, coming from such a hurt place though. “No, I don’t even want your presents. I don’t even want the good stuff.” Pushing it away. If we think about it, we can relate to that hurt in that, right?

And one thing to remind ourselves of as parents is that when something is so unreasonable like that, it’s very clearly emotionally based. It’s very clearly about a feeling that he’s expressing. So this feeling of, I felt pushed away from the baby maybe, or I felt pushed aside when we had to focus on daddy’s health or you were impatient with me, because you had your own issues to deal with, understandably. But not to him. He still has feelings about it. “I don’t want these things. I’m going to throw them in the trash.” So what this parent does is so normal and understandable. She says, “We don’t throw presents or clothes in the trash, but we can put this away if you don’t want to keep it.” And I’m sure she said it so kindly, but that is seeing it as a more reasonable decision than it is.

If we see the little hurt child here pushing us away in this awkward immature way, then we can just hold space for the feeling and say, “You really, really don’t want this. You don’t want these presents. I’m going to keep them right here and see maybe you’ll want them later. But yeah, you don’t want them at all.” Accepting that feeling.

Yeah, It’s so hard, so challenging not to get hooked in from our reasonable heads with our children. “What do you mean you don’t want these presents? Okay, I’ll put this away.” We’re going to do that. We’re going to do it a lot. So this is just another awareness for us to reflect on — that many of these things, when our children say them, aren’t coming from a reasonable place. So we don’t want to take them that way.

And this is interesting too… In a recent podcast, I shared a parent’s success story about her child’s tantrum and how she handled it. It’s called, “Healing a Child’s Anger (a Powerful Success Story).” And there was a lot of discussion afterwards, especially on my Instagram page, I think, about the fact that this boy had said in his hurt feelings, he had said to his mother at the beginning of these explosive feelings that he had, something like, “I need space, go away.” And so many people were concerned that he was saying he needed space and that he wasn’t giving consent for her to stay next to him, that she should have listened to that and not stuck with him as she did.

And my point in this discussion was that wasn’t coming from a thoughtful place. “I need some space and I need you to back off.” It was him blurting out, from a place of hurt, things that would be pushing his mother away. It was an expression of his feelings. These weren’t thoughtful decisions or facts or things that were actual needs of his.

And this is what I want to get into a little about what gets in our way. One of the things is what I was saying about, it’s easier to see a big meltdown as a child releasing feelings than in all these little small moments where it does seem quite reasonable what they’re saying. So that’s one of them.

And this other one is that if we’re kind of seeing it as reasonable, we feel like we’re supposed to follow that direction, right? We get stuck there. We get afraid that, oh gosh, we’re not respecting our child’s boundaries or we’re not respecting his words. When he’s saying no, we should really consider that. This is where we have to work on going beyond the words and really tuning in to the feelings, seeing the state our child is in. And maybe considering, if this is a pattern, why our child would be saying those things, why would my child be asking for space and telling me to go away when he’s upset? Why would he not want me there? Sometimes it is because we have impatience. We are not as accepting of the feelings as we want to try to be. And so all of our discomfort is coming out and that’s even more flooding for our child. They don’t want that.

So that’s a possibility, and I would look at that rather than saying, Oh, I’ve got to heed whatever words my child says. I mean, we can all relate to… Sometimes we say, “Go away. No, I don’t want you. I don’t like you.” And we’re not asking that person to leave forever or to even leave now. What we want is for them to understand that I’m expressing feelings and I can’t express them to you if you go, actually. I need you to be here so that I can share how angry I am with you and how upset I am. With children, that’s especially true because getting distance from us is really never going to be helpful for them in these early years.

So anyway, it was an interesting discussion and reminded me how challenging it is to see beyond the words and tune into where the words are coming from, what kind of feelings are there.

The good thing about that too, is that the feelings our children have are very relatable to us as adults. The way that they express them or act on them isn’t as relatable because we’ve matured, most of us. Although I still know people that shout no before they say yes. And I always wonder about that. Maybe they didn’t have encouragement to be in an “I don’t know” process. Maybe they felt rushed or they felt they had to make a decision. And I feel like saying no a lot, but I don’t usually say it. But I get overwhelmed.

So I think most of us relate to the feelings. And relating to our child is how we’re going to connect. And we’ve all heard this a lot — the importance of connection. The more we can connect accurately with our child, the more settled they feel, the safer they feel, the calmer their behavior becomes.

So welcome the nos just like any other feeling. But when it’s about a transition, keep moving forward confidently. Not trying to put an end to the no and then move forward, let the no happen while we’re moving forward. Let whatever feeling it is continue to be expressed the whole way in the car to school or whatever. It’s all good. It’s all positive. Whenever children are expressing feelings, it’s the best thing that could happen for them and for us, because we’ll get the calm at the end of the storm, both in that situation and overall.

I really hope some of this helps.

Please check out some of the other podcasts on my website, janetlansbury.com. They’re all indexed by subject and category, so you should be able to find whatever topic you might be interested in. And both of my books are available in paperback at Amazon: No Bad Kids, Toddler Discipline Without Shame and Elevating Child Care, A Guide To Respectful Parenting. You can also get them in e-book at Amazon, Apple, Google Play, or Barnes & Noble and in audio at audible.com. You can get a free audio copy of either book at Audible by following the link in the liner notes of this podcast.

Thanks so much for listening. We can do this.

The post My Child Says No to Everything appeared first on Janet Lansbury.

Transcript of “Parenting in Anxious Times (with Susan Stiffelman, MFT)”

Hi, this is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled. Today I’m welcoming back a special guest, family therapist and parenting author, Susan Stiffelman, and she’s here to help me answer a question from a parent about talking to her child, who tends to be anxious, about the coronavirus and the changes their family’s going to have to make. I realize that the specifics of the situation for all of us are changing rapidly, but Susan and I hope to speak to the struggles parents are having and some strategies that they can use to address this difficult situation.

Hi there, friend.

Susan Stiffelman:  Hey, Janet. It’s so good to be here with you.

Janet Lansbury:  Thank you so much for coming on to talk with me about this heavy stuff we have going on. I’ve got a note here and you were the first person I thought of to help me answer this parent’s concerns, which I imagine are the concerns of many parents out there. So thank you, Susan.

Here’s the note. This parent says:

I have an inquisitive, sensitive four-year-old daughter. With the recent coronavirus outbreaks around the world and US, I have remained informed but not shared this information with her. Unfortunately and very rapidly my home state has begun taking precautions due to infections in the area closing all K-12 schools. We are anticipating childcare to follow as licensed providers in several surrounding counties have been mandated to close. I work in childcare and she attends, so closure would drastically impact our daily live. Even without that, local museums, children’s programs, etc., in our area that we regularly frequent have announced closures due to an abundance of caution.

My question is: what is the best way for me to explain this information to a four year old? Of course, I want to use language that is appropriate and that she can understand. But I also have it in the back of my mind that she tends to be anxious and worry about things. Additionally, she asks tons of questions and I want to be able to field those appropriately. Thank you for any guidance you can provide.

Susan Stiffelman:  That’s such a great question and I think it’s universal right now, whether the child’s four or eight or 12. Our kids want to know what the heck is going on. The world is not the way it was yesterday and we’re not doing things the same way we were. So kudos to that parent to writing into you Janet.

Janet Lansbury:  Yes. And it sounds like she’s been able to keep the status quo for a while, but it seems like she’s noticing that there are some impending changes. I’ll try to get this out as soon as possible and at least we can help her to answer some of the questions and explain the situation to her. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Susan Stiffelman:  Yeah. Let’s start with the good news, which might surprise people. What’s the good news? It seems like all the news is worrisome. But the good news about a young child in this situation is that we have a lot of power or ability to quell their anxieties by regulating ourselves, and by managing our own fears and worries in an appropriate way with other adults, getting support in ways that help us, finding good sources of guidance online or within our communities and friendships.

So this four-year-old is not browsing the internet for information. They’re going to be primarily looking in one direction. That is to the mom who can first and foremost address her own concerns and fears.

So I always suggest that parents before talking with their children, have a conversation with a trusted friend or some support group that will help her address some of her greatest worries around the virus, and the upheaval and disruption in daily life that seems to be up ahead for so many of us, so that her four-year-old doesn’t pick up on that.

Because the other good news is that four-year-olds really are focused on mostly one thing, and that one thing is: am I going to be okay and is mommy or daddy or grandma going to be okay? They’re egocentric. And so the primary concern of this child is going to be about the immediate world that she lives in. And that’s easier, in one sense, to address by, first of all: holding a place, as you do begin the conversation or have these conversations, where you’re energetically reassuring — that there’s a place you have managed to land on where you’re not spinning in your head with all the what ifs, all the things that might happen.

I was doing something for parents earlier today to offer support. And one of the things that I reminded someone when they asked the question: “How are we going to get through this day after day after day, homeschooling and all these other things?”

And I said, “Well, remember in the 12 step programs, it’s one day at a time. And even though we have to plan for what this is going to look like, all we have to do is get through today.”

And so I think I would start with remembering that for ourselves and then being in a place when we begin the conversation (you and I can talk about what that might sound like), where we’re not subtly transmitting our own fears and worries because we’ve appropriately vented those with an adult that we trust.

Janet Lansbury:  Yes. That’s so important. Children are always taking their tone from us and we’re the first point of safety for them, and if we’re not there, then yeah, it is much harder for them to feel comfortable. So we would start with that. That’s a wonderful framing. Really important.

Susan Stiffelman:  And remember that this is a neutral event, even though it’s a disruptive event for a young child. There isn’t the same kind of cataloging of where does this rank in the realm of awful things? They watch us so carefully to decide how they should feel about something like this, something that happens that’s unexpected or difficult.

I’ve seen this with kids so many times, and I saw this when my own son was young, that we might be facing something that to me was sort of, “Oh, my gosh, I can’t believe we’re dealing with this.” And his focus was not on the situation but on me. Like to read me to see whether he should be worried or whether this was sort of a funny thing or even a good thing.

So again, holding a place, when she does begin to speak with her little girl, that allows her to communicate in the nonverbal part of the messaging: This is a change and this is different and there are things that we haven’t figured out yet, but I’m solid and we’ll get through this, and it’s just one day at a time.

So that’s kind of reiterating what I said before, but it’s important that we remember that we can strongly influence how our kids digest this information in the way that we come across.

Janet Lansbury:  Exactly. I’ve noticed that children always surprise me in their ability to be okay with very unusual or even tragic situations  when we are okay with it. We’re not happy about it, but they know, again, they’re looking to us. Are my parents going to be okay? That’s all I care about. That’s my world. And then they surprise us with their ability to understand things.

I would recommend being very honest and simple using frames of reference that our child has saying things like: “You know how we get colds and we get stuffy noses. Sometimes we get a fever and we have to lie down.  That comes from a virus and right now there’s a virus that’s new and for a lot of people it ends up feeling like a cold or the flu, but for some people it’s very dangerous. So we’re all being careful not to pass this around and we’re not going to have daycare for a while and we are going to keep our lives to ourselves a little more.” And things like that. I think children can understand that and even embrace it as: Okay, well, we’ll do this interesting new thing, again because my parent seems confident that it’s going to be all right.

Susan Stiffelman:  Yeah. I like using very concrete ways of describing situations to young kids who are in that concrete stage. So for instance, you could take out your puppets and show the puppets playing catch with a little balled up piece of tissue or you could just play catch and maybe a foot apart. And then get a little bit further apart, and then eventually go to the other end of the room and deliberately throw the tissue where it doesn’t reach. And help her understand that in a way the tissue represents the germs that carry this virus. And so if you’re really close and you throw the tissue back and forth, it’s not very hard to catch it.

If your child isn’t good at catching by the way, you can just sit on the floor and push it back and forth the way we used to play hot potato. But if you get really far on the other side of the room or one of you goes down the hall, then eventually you just can’t reach.

And you could sort of explain: “This tissue represents the germs that carry this bug, this virus, this flu that we’re really all working hard not to pass to each other. And if we’re close together, then it’s easier for it to pass from one friend to another friend. But if we’re far apart or we stay in our houses…” And you could even play the game where you go outside. One of you goes outside and closes the door, then you can obviously see that the tissue, the little germ can’t reach the other person. So anything that comes to mind that would allow you to make it visible and practical for the child to understand why this distancing is a really good idea can be helpful.

And of course we’re all talking about washing hands for 20 seconds, singing Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star or two verses of Happy Birthday. And this can become a game. It can become something that you do where you’re being a little bit silly, maybe, so that you reinforce this habit of being a germ buster. Where you make it really hard for the germ to pass from one friend to another, and that’s the way everybody’s going to stay well.

Janet Lansbury:  I love that.

And then this parent, she’s anticipating that her daughter will have questions and she wants to make sure that she’s going to field those appropriately. That’s the wonderful thing about children. They let you know what’s on their mind and they ask the questions. We don’t have to assume that they’re worried about certain things. They will let us know… and may not even be worried about it, may just be: This is what I’m curious about. This is what I’m interested in and this is what I need to know to feel more on top of this situation for myself.

Susan Stiffelman:  I’m sitting here nodding my head vigorously.

Janet Lansbury:  That’s why I love working with younger children. They are so clear about that.

So I think this parent doesn’t have to worry. She’s going to get the questions. And if she can just kind of not jump ahead, again, with her own anxiety, fear that she’s going to say the wrong thing or her daughter’s going to be afraid of something, then I think she’ll find that her daughter will be more in learning mode than anxious mode.

Susan Stiffelman:  That’s a great way to put it, Janet. Less is more, so err on the side of being brief with any child, but particularly a young child. Answer the question that they’re asking, don’t elaborate. Don’t volunteer more information than they’ve really shown an interest in.

I love that you’ve talked about curiosity. The anxiety comes in for a couple of reasons. One, some children are just generally are naturally more sensitive and more anxious and or they pick up our anxiety about these things. So we don’t have to assume that she will be anxious. She might be. But we can assume and begin with the understanding that she’s going to need to know why you’re not going to daycare, why that facility is being closed while you’re all at home. But if you deliver information in a factual and simple, straightforward way and then ask if she’d like to know anything else and then answer the next question and let her guide.

Now the exception to this with some children that I’ve worked with is that, unintentionally, their parents have created a climate where the kids are very reluctant to ask the questions that are on their mind because they don’t want a few things to happen. One is that they don’t want their parent to dismiss their concerns out of hand. “Oh, don’t worry about it, nothing’s going to happen.”

Kids are too smart. They’re really tuned in. And so that can shut them down and prevent them from asking questions that they really should and need to ask to get things out in the open that they might be worried about and quietly ruminating about, if we haven’t made it safe for them to bring them out into the open. And of course, sometimes kids are shy about asking questions or bringing their concerns out into the open because they don’t want to upset a parent.

So if they’re feeling that you’re already worried, they may hold in their own worries because they sense that it would overwhelm you. They’re again, so tuned into us. So the biggest kind of overarching thing that I suggest to parents is that they really make it safe by creating an atmosphere of openness, of acceptance. Any question is allowed without pouncing on it with advice or worries or, “Oh, don’t worry about that or don’t think that” or magnifying their fears if they bring them in the open. This is what helps kids get through challenging situations. It’s not that we can control everything and make sure they never have to face anything that’s worrisome or scary, but it’s that we make it safe and possible for them to let us know what’s rattling them, what’s unsettling them so that we can help them through it.

Janet Lansbury:  That expression, “be strong for somebody.” I feel like through (nothing like this because I’ve never been through anything like this particular situation in my lifetime), but other difficult situations I’ve been in… Or when I had to talk to my children about uncomfortable things or when they were talking to me about uncomfortable things all through the years into their adulthood, I felt like I needed to rise into this heroic place in myself. And it felt really, really good to be this big person. Not a person that was ignoring that I have discomforts, but I was rising out of them out of deep love for my child.

And because I so treasured the sharing that was happening, and I knew how precious it was that they were sharing their concerns with me or their curiosities about uncomfortable things. And I knew that these conversations were so few and far between that I wouldn’t want to do anything to discourage them from happening as often as they could possibly happen.

So I think this is a place that we can go to for the sake of our child and it will feel very validating for us, and probably help us to feel better about situations ourselves as well, because we’re going to that place inside ourselves that is fearless or less fearful.

Susan Stiffelman:  Yeah, and this is one of the gifts that children bring to our lives: they propel us into a sturdier or deeper or finer version of ourselves. We have to kind of grow beyond what we think we can do.

And then of course there is the possibility here that the child will be anxious and we should be prepared for kids to have some signs of anxiety, whether it’s more clinginess, problems sleeping appetite changes, irritability or meltdowns. All of these things are going to be appropriate manifestations of a child who’s unsettled by the changes in their lives. Many kids are creatures of routine and habit.

So if her daughter does exhibit or express her anxiety to be okay with that. I love what you said about that fearlessness or less fearful where we can allow her to have that experience of being uncomfortable with the changes around her, or a little bit worried, without fueling them with our own.

And again, the good news is that when we hold a place… I call it the captain of the ship. But when we convey that kind of calm, confident energy, even when we don’t have all the pieces sorted out of how each day will look or what the implications will be for our lives going forward for a while, an anxious child will find comfort in that.

And then we can always do things like helping them color or draw a picture of what they’re feeling inside. If a child comes to you and says, “I’m really scared about this, I’m afraid grandma might get sick,” or whatever might worry them.

“Well, what color are you feeling? If your scary feelings had a color, what color would they be? And point to the part of your body where those feelings are moving around right now.” So that we help our kids embody the experience of all their feelings.

You and I have talked a lot about this, that humans have a wide repertoire of emotions and feelings and so we want to make them comfortable with that. So, if she’s feeling anxious to allow her to connect with that.

Janet Lansbury:  Yeah, that’s wonderful.

Susan Stiffelman:  And then to be able to move on. I do a lot of mindfulness practices with families with kids: “Can you put your hand on that part of your body that’s feeling a little butterfly-y or just a little nervous or a little icky? And let’s imagine that coming through your hand into that part of your tummy where you’re feeling those scary anxious feelings. You see this calm blue, warm light just bathing that scary part until it calms down and settles down. Like how we sometimes rock your little niece and we settle her down when she’s feeling a little unsettled or anxious.”

And we want to be sure to empower anxious children, or all children, with things that they can do to feel better when they’re feeling afraid. Of course there are practical things that can help them as well. “Okay, you’re going to be in charge of watering the plants or you’re going to be in charge of helping make a really pretty dinner table for us tonight.” That gives kids something that they can sort of grab hold of to channel some of that extra energy into.

Janet Lansbury:  Right, and feel some autonomy in the situation. Like an older child that has schoolwork to do could have some ideas about what they want to do first and their schedule of their day and other things. “Can you help me watch your sibling while I do this?” Giving them ways to feel like they have agency in their being autonomous in a situation. And that helps children feel more in control and comfortable.

Susan Stiffelman:  That’s such a good point, because part of what fuels fear is the sense of powerlessness. And I think all of us could agree that that’s probably why we’re having our own anxious moment, because there’s so much uncertainty, and human beings tend to like things to be predictable. What causes and feeds anxiety is that sense of helplessness and powerlessness in a situation. So like you said, any opportunity to put a child in charge of something or to give them a job or to help them be the one who teaches you something can allay some of their anxieties.

Janet Lansbury:  I love what you said about normalizing the feelings that your child is anxious, perhaps, and is sharing that with you. And really this is the situation that we have reason to feel anxious and it’s okay.

Susan Stiffelman:  Children are so adaptable and remarkably resilient when we have faith in their ability to kind of take a sharp left turn when one wasn’t expected.

And I actually am trying to reframe at least one small part of what we’re all going through as an opportunity for kids to discover, on the other side of this, that they can go through difficult things. I mean, this is the way that we’d grow resilient, and this is how we become resilient ourselves. We go through something we didn’t know we could go through. We find our way through it, as hard as it might be at times. And when we come out the other side, we are sturdier, we’re more confident. So there is the potential here, if we can take this gently and be kind to ourselves and to each other, that our kids will become more resilient as a result.

Janet Lansbury:  I feel like there’s a very good possibility that our children are going to look back, and maybe we will as well, at this time and feel how special it was and how much they learned and how much they gained from it — sharing a big experience with their family. And again, like you said, that we got through and look what we were able to do. And it does empower you. It makes you feel like you can do anything.

Susan Stiffelman:  I agree. I think that if we can hold onto that image and not get lost in this swirl of confusion and worry right now… And do our due diligence, be incredibly careful and conscientious, practice, social distancing, try and implement some degree of sanity in our daily lives and continuity and regularity and routine. But also hold a vision of coming through this stronger and sturdier and more connected, maybe more vulnerable and exposed, in a good way, with one another. I think it could be that there would be at least a few silver linings. Not that we would ever choose this, no, but we can help each other come through this and be all right.

Janet Lansbury:  I love what you started out with saying about one day at a time. For today we’re okay, and let’s end with that.

Susan Stiffelman:  Yeah, it’ll be all right. Thanks, Janet.

Janet Lansbury:  Thank you so much. Susan.

For more support, Susan has been doing webinars, these free online get togethers. She did one last Monday. She’s going to be doing one this coming Monday, March 23rd, at 11:00 AM Pacific Time, and I will be joining her to answer your questions. So please do join us. I’ll be leaving the information in the transcript of this podcast: HERE

Please check out Susan’s other incredible resources, her books (HERE) and her podcast, Parenting Without Power Struggles.

Also, please check out some of the other podcasts on my website JanetLansbury.com. They’re all indexed by subject and category, so you should be able to find whatever topic you might be interested in. And both of my books are available on audio, No Bad Kids, Toddler Discipline Without Shame and Elevating Child Care, A Guide To Respectful Parenting. You can find them through my website or on audible.com, and you can also get them in paperback at Amazon and in ebook at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and Apple.com.

Thanks for listening. We can do this.

The post Parenting in Anxious Times (with Susan Stiffelman, MFT) appeared first on Janet Lansbury.