Transcript of “My Child Refuses Independent Play”

Hi, this is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled.

Today I’m going to be responding to a question that’s very similar to many that I get, and I do understand this issue because I can totally relate to the struggle of it. How do we encourage our child to play independently of us? How do we separate from them to free them up to play when our child seems to continually want our attention?

Here’s the email I received:

Hi, Janet-

Thanks so much for your podcast and advice. I hope it’s okay to ask you about a situation I’m having with my daughter. I’m a stay-at-home mom to a very bright, busy, extroverted four-year-old girl who loves having my complete attention.

She goes to school in the mornings, and in the afternoons we try to stay busy with classes, walks, and going to the park. I try to give her as much attention as I can, but I’m an introvert with ADHD and I get overstimulated and irritable from constant interaction. The only way I can get her to give me some space is if I hand her a screen, and I’m growing uncomfortable with how much I’ve been relying on screens to keep her occupied. And it doesn’t always work. Sometimes she wants me to sit down and watch the show alongside her, and I can only watch so much Peppa Pig.

I would love to help her learn to entertain herself with toys. It’s not just for me, I think it would be good for her to be comfortable being by herself. She seems to get anxious and takes it as a personal rejection when I tell her that mommy needs some time to herself. If I tell her I’m taking a break and she’s going to play by herself for 15 minutes, I have about five minutes before the bids for attention start coming: “I’m hungry.” “I need help with this.” “Come look at this.” If I tell her that I’m on a break and I’ll help her when I’m done, she’ll keep asking, “How many more minutes?” Completely defeats the purpose of a break. Last night, she got out a craft project and said, “Let’s do it together.” I said, “Go ahead. I’m going to eat a snack first and I’ll come join you when I’m ready.” She had a meltdown and then reached for her iPad.

I love that she wants to engage with me, but I worry that her constant need for my attention means that she feels insecure about her bond with me. How do I convey to her that it’s okay for us to do things separately sometimes?

A lot of interesting themes here in this parent’s note, in the issues that she’s having, this theme of a child being willing to be independent of us.

I’m going to start by offering some context for how that develops, children developing their independent play and other independent activities, what gets in the way of that, and what we can do to aid this natural process. From there, I’m going to talk about the specifics in this parent’s note.

The wish for autonomy and independence is something that naturally emerges in children. But interestingly, sometimes we can get in the way of that without meaning to, at all. This was the topic of a recent podcast I did with Hari Grebler. It was called Every Child, Even a Tiny Baby, Deserves Time On Their Own. One of the things we talked about is noticing when, even as a baby, our child is expressing their autonomy, just through an autonomous interest that they’re having. They’re looking at something, they’re doing something that isn’t directed at us. And most of us don’t know—I didn’t know until I had my education with Magda Gerber—to recognize that and honor it and make space for it with our child. Because they are showing signs of independence and separation from us, even as tiny infants. So we want to nurture those moments if possible.

Another one is a very controversial subject. People will say that it’s impossible for a baby to do anything towards self-soothing, but the experts that actually observe babies, like T. Berry Brazelton, Heidelise Als, Dr. Kevin Nugent, they notice that even preemies are attempting to settle themselves. Not because the parent or the nurse in NICU abandoned them and they have no choice. Self-soothing is a choice that a baby makes to try to find their thumb. And when we observe, we can see babies wanting to do these things. Sometimes. A lot of the time they need us to help calm them down. And even when they’re self-soothing, they need our help and support. To be emotionally there for them, to be physically there, encouraging them by letting them know that we’re there, we’ve got their back, and we’re not going to just leave them to do it on their own. We see them and we see that they’re in a process of trying to do something and we don’t want to interrupt that. That’s what healthy self-soothing is.

It’s a very tender process that happens bit by bit. And it’s something, again, like having those play moments where children are just paying attention to something else, that we can nurture by allowing them, by giving some space for that when we see it happening. And of course that starts with observation. Being sensitive observers whenever possible. That’s how we can see what our child’s interests are, what they’re working on, what skills they’re developing. We can’t when we’re always doing everything for them, assuming their needs a little bit more. So we want to try to see our child as a separate person as early as possible, that’s capable of doing some separate things.

And that sounds easy when I say it, but it’s not easy. In fact, here’s a quote from T. Berry Brazelton: “In my experience, learning to separate and to give the child critical independence may well be the most difficult job in parenting.” So this is challenging. It doesn’t feel natural to a lot of us, especially if we’re worriers, if we are sensitive and we’re fearful, maybe, sometimes, of not always being there immediately when our child needs us and doing everything that we worry they need us to do. This is one of the reasons I love Magda Gerber’s magic word: Wait. Just wait a moment to see what your child is actually doing. If they can do that themselves or get a little closer to doing that themselves. If they’re doing something, maybe, that’s really valuable, that is so easy for us to interrupt with our best intentions, but maybe we shouldn’t. Maybe it’s better if we wait a moment first and really observe. This is challenging, right?

And then the other part of being able to separate like this parent wants to and have her daughter be able to play independently. This part I think is even harder than noticing when our child is being autonomous and not interrupting that. This is even harder, because it means being independent of them ourselves. And this is also what Brazelton is talking about in that quote. Being independent of them so that we can be interdependent as two autonomous people. That’s what we’re going for, right? A relationship of interdependence where we rely on each other, but we are two separate people, we are autonomous. That means tuning into ourselves and being able to say, I don’t want to do that. This is what I’m going to do. Because what can happen is that we unintentionally give a message to our child that they need us to do what they want. That that’s a need instead of a want.

I think that is part of what’s happening in this note. I’m going to get to the details in a minute. This idea that our child seems to want us always next to them, so we go along with it. And then it’s like that idea I talk about a lot here about accommodating. By accommodating that, we’re giving our child the message that we agree that they need our attention all the time, that they can’t be okay without us, in this case, playing with them. We’re only trying to do the right thing, but we’re giving our child the impression that we don’t trust them to be able to be separate. That’s the kind of feedback loop that happens here that none of us want, right?

In RIE parent-infant and parent-toddler classes, we do this really helpful thing that comes from attachment theory. In attachment theory, Bowlby and Ainsworth talked about being a secure base. Because babies need—and as they’re developing, children continue to need—that secure base, us, that they can leave to be free explorers, coming back as needed. A secure base isn’t forcing you to be independent. The way that we play this out in the classrooms is we ask the parents to please find a spot on the floor, there’s these backjacks to sit on. And please stay in that spot as much as possible and let your child be the one to move away from you. So the children have a choice, always, of being with us in our spot or venturing out to engage with other children, to engage with some of the toys that are there.

The RIE center where I mostly have taught has indoor/outdoor choice. Usually the parents are sitting indoors and the babies one day start to crawl or scoot on their tummies and they’re able to move out into the outdoors. And maybe they’re moving around the corner where the parent can’t even see them from where that parent is sitting. The facilitator, which would be me or whoever the teacher is in the classroom, can see them and make sure that they’re okay. It is a safe space, so there aren’t many ways that they could get hurt. But we can keep an eye on them and maybe we’re the ones that move around.

And then if two children are coming together or maybe a child is starting to climb on something that we haven’t seen them handle before, then we go close and we’re able to demonstrate for the parents minimal interventions. Interventions that allow children to develop their sense of competence and autonomy and develop their motor abilities or their problem-solving abilities or their creative abilities with play. So we’re there as backup to make sure they’re safe, intervene as minimally as possible to give them the most encouragement and confidence in themselves.

We recommend the parents do this at home too, of course. When they’re enjoying playtime with their child, that they plant themselves, allowing their child to move away from them and explore in safe areas. Sometimes when parents come into the classes when their child is a toddler, they haven’t been there since their child was an infant, so they’re coming in with their child as a toddler. And oftentimes the toddlers will try to bring the parent with them around this room to look at things. Of course, we never insist parents do it a certain way, but we suggest, we recommend that the parent insists that they’re going to stay there. Very kindly and not intensely, but just confidently. “I’m going to stay here. I’d love you to stay with me. You could sit on my lap. You could sit next to me. Or you can go look at the toys.”

I’m not trying to coax you to leave me and be “independent.” I’m not uncomfortable if you’re staying with me that, Oh, there’s something wrong and I really don’t want you to be here, because children pick up that vibe from us. Do they ever! And that makes them want to cling even more, when they feel that we’re not comfortable with them staying there. What works best is to be totally welcoming of your child being there. Children don’t want to sit on our laps for their whole life. It’s somebody like me, with the grown-up kids: It’s nice to have children want to be with you. And so they have that option.

But then sometimes the parents will worry, Oh, my child is getting upset that I’m not coming around with them. And that’s where we may have given a child that impression, because we’ve just tried to go along with things and be a good parent, they’ve gotten the impression that they need us to be there. When in fact they just want us to be with them. But what we want is for them to be free to explore and engage with other children without a parent looming over them.

It’s this interesting model that we can all learn from and that really helps children’s play to thrive and their social skill and everything else, all of their skills. And what I recommend to parents is that they do this everywhere that they go with their child that’s really a place for their child to explore. If they’re just on a playdate, at a birthday party, going to the park, this parent said she’s doing classes. Plant yourself, this is what I recommend, plant yourself somewhere as the secure base. If your child wants to drag you around with them, kindly say, “No, but I’m here for you. Whenever you need me, just come. I’ll be here.”

In the classrooms we do that also, because sometimes the children will be getting very involved in things and then they turn around and they want to know where their parent is. And if the parent’s moving around, then that’s discomforting for the child. It distracts them, they can’t focus on what they’re doing. That’s another reason we recommend staying put and being that secure base. Stay put. Insist on it, kindly.

Your child will maybe get mad at you and resist the first few times and try to coax you and act like they can’t do it without you. And this is the hard thing about all of this—and again, I’m going to get into this parent’s specifics—but the hard thing here is that if you’re a person who’s easily guilted, like me, or you go into that place of worry, then children are amazing the way that—I believe this is them wanting to shape us up, unconsciously, I believe that’s what they’re doing. But on the outside, it looks like they’re just not going to survive if we don’t follow them into a playground where all the children are and hold them by the hand. If we dare to be somewhere separate, they can make it seem like we’re doing this awful, awful thing to them. And we can fall into guilt about that, Oh no! Just as with children, when we’re in that feeling brain, when we’re in that less reasonable brain, we lose reason. Just like children do.

When we can get out of the fear place and the guilt place and see this from a place of reason, we notice, Well wait a second, I’m right here. I’m staying in this spot, I haven’t left. And they have a choice to come be with me anytime. So why does this feel like I’m doing something so wrong and abandoning my child? Just because I’m setting this boundary that I’m going to stay here. Whenever they need me, I’m still there to give them my attention whenever they need me. Children can take us to these places where we lose reason. It’s happened to me a lot of times, so I do relate to this. But we’re not doing our child favors when we do that.

Another way to think of the word independence is freedom, right? So it’s not like we want our child to be independent because we don’t care and we need them to take care of themselves. We want them to be free to explore their way, to create play that comes from inside them, to be able to thrive in all these situations. That idea helped me a great deal to get over the hump to setting the boundaries that I needed to set, allowing myself to separate.

I’m not talking about necessarily physically separating in another room, but just separate as a person, holding my own. This is what I’m doing. You can want me to do something else, but this is what I’m doing. And it’s okay if we’re in conflict. It’s normal to be in conflict in life, and I can love you through conflict. We’ll survive it. That’s part of being in relationships, that’s part of life. It’s interesting where children can take us in our minds because we love them so much, really.

These are the two aspects to work on when we want to encourage our child’s independence to emerge and for them to be able to be separate. The two things are to notice it when it’s happening. Those little things our baby even does, those moments our child has where they do have an idea. And it’s really hard not to jump on that sometimes and say, “Oh yeah, you can do it this way or that way,” and put our own two cents in, I always want to do that with play. But to hold back on that, to wait, use that magic word, wait, and allow it to be. So there’s that aspect. And then the other aspect is the boundary aspect, where we’re taking care of our independent self.

Now I’m going to talk about that and how it works with the particulars this parent has shared with me. It’s interesting. She describes her daughter as a “bright, busy, extroverted girl,” and that doesn’t sound like a child that wouldn’t be very independent as well, right? That’s the interesting thing is oftentimes it’s these extroverted children that are wanting to lead us as well. But underneath it all, they’re hoping that they don’t have to, because they know they’re only four years old, and that’s a big burden on them. That doesn’t free them, it does the opposite. Instead of playing the way children can play, now I’ve got to keep seeing if she really means it. Is she going to stick by what she said or is she going to melt for me like she sometimes does? They go to that place. So it’s very often these strong personality, intense, dynamic children that are the ones that can seem the most clingy and needy. That’s interesting, right? And when we go to that reasonable brain that we have, it doesn’t make sense, it doesn’t add up.

This parent tries to give her as much attention as she can, but she’s an introvert with ADHD, and she gets overstimulated and irritable from constant interaction. I can totally understand that, and I think a lot of parents do, even when they don’t have ADHD, because that’s not a natural situation with two people in a relationship. It’s not natural for us to be interacting all the time, so it’s not going to feel right and it’s not going to feel comfortable.

She says, “she seems to get anxious and takes it as a personal rejection when I tell her that mommy needs some time to herself.” One thing I would do here, because it will help us to be that autonomous person with her and see her as an autonomous person. Start using first person with her, instead of saying, “Mommy needs time to herself.” That’s not very direct. Children like this, and most children, really need that exchange as two people. “I’m going to do this now. I want to be by myself. This is what I’m doing.” I believe it will help you, it helps me, to believe that I’m talking to a person when I’m not talking about myself as mommy. When I’m saying, This is me. I have wants. You have wants. Of course, I’m always going to be there to take care of your needs as best I can, but I’m not going to take care of everything you want because sometimes it’ll be in conflict with what I want. It’s so much easier to do that when we’re in the habit of being you and me, two people.

In terms of her daughter being anxious and taking it as a personal rejection, I think that might be a projection on this parent’s part. Because how could this child feel personally rejected when we give them plenty of attention and now we’re just asserting ourselves? She may be acting like she’s rejected, but in her heart, she knows she’s not being rejected. She knows you’re being a leader, and the leader that she needs. And anxious. I mean, that may be there. And it might be a reflection of this parent feeling anxious about standing up for herself. That’s how tightly we can get involved in these things emotionally with our child. It’s really easy to do, we all do it to some extent about some things. To try to extricate ourselves from, Okay, I’m kind of anxious. Now that’s going to make her more anxious. And when I see her anxious, that’s going to make me more anxious. It goes back and forth, back and forth like that. And it doesn’t help either of us. Of course, it doesn’t help our child, it doesn’t help us, and we can get caught up in it and it just keeps kind of building on itself.

We usually have to be the ones to get into our reasonable brain and see our way out of this. It usually can’t be our child first. It needs to be us. So consider the reasonableness of what you’re picking up, the impression that you’re getting. Think about all the time that you do give her and that she’s this extroverted girl. I mean, you can’t be an extroverted girl and be that anxious about rejection because that would not make you an extroverted girl. So it doesn’t really go together. And there are other things like that. I’m sure that when this parent reflects, she can consider whether this is the truth or a reflection of her fears of what might be going on. Feeling maybe guilty, that she doesn’t deserve to take care of herself and do what she wants, that she has to give her whole self up to her child. Take your time to yourself. Say it confidently. Know that you’re going to get pushback.

She says, “If I tell her I’m taking a break and she’s going to play by herself for 15 minutes, I have about five minutes before the bids for attention start coming.” So when you do this, because you know her very well, expect that you’re going to get every bid under the sun for attention. Every clever way, every dramatic way, every upset way, every guilt-inducing way. She’s going to have to go there. She has to, to make sure that she can really be free of you. I mean, that’s the way we have to look at it underneath this. And I believe that. It’s not just something we have to tell ourselves to make it work, it’s the truth. So expect “I’m hungry,” “I need help with this,” “Come look at this.” And just answer from that place of I’m independent, I’m confident, I deserve to separate. She will be free when I do. When she knows that I can, it will free her. There’s only positives here in what I’m doing.

So, “How many more minutes?” “You know, I’m not sure. Five or 10, I think.” “I need help with this.” “I’m sure you do, and I can’t wait to help you when I’m done. I will when I’m ready.” “Come look at this.” “You know what, I’m not going to right now.” And it’s okay, also, if these statements are coming at you like rapid fire. Just let a couple of them go, holding your own pace. Don’t get caught up in her pace. Her pace is going to be urgent and persistent. Your pace is slower. It’s centered. It’s not reflecting her energy. It’s holding your energy. With practice, this gets easier, but it’s really important.

When you respond, you don’t have to respond right away. “I’m hungry.” “Oh, okay!” “I’m hungry.” “Oh, you must be getting ready for dinner soon. We’re going to have it soon.” “I need help with this.” “Well, let’s put it on hold for a little while.” Then she says, “Come look at this.” Maybe you just let that one go for a minute, because she knows, she knows what she’s doing. She knows that this can get to you, so don’t let it get to you. See this as her path to freedom. It’s a bumpy, bumpy path, right? Let her have her path. You hold your own.

“If I tell her that I’m on a break and I’ll help her when I’m done, she’ll keep asking, ‘How many more minutes?'” So let her ask, let her ask, and then, “Oh, you asked how many more minutes? I think it’s about 10.” And then let her ask. You don’t have to answer every time, but this parent says that “completely defeats the purpose of a break.” Yeah, it does. But it’s a temporary situation, if you can commit to your role. Not to that you have to say certain words or certain speech. Just consider it an improvisation, where all you know is your role and your role is to be inside yourself, strong, this kind of hero for her. That can be separate, that can take care of yourself, giving her incredible positive messages. And again, freeing her to be able to entertain herself and play by herself.

And then she talks about the craft project and that the parent said, no, she wasn’t going to do it with her right then, and her daughter had a meltdown. Yeah, those meltdowns, those are releasing control, meltdowns, oftentimes. And if she’s having a meltdown over that, think about it, she needs to have a meltdown, right? If children are having a meltdown over these inconsequential things, that means it’s not really about that. It’s some release that she needs to have. So try to trust that. It’s the truth.

But then here’s the part I want to help this parent with. She says, “she had a meltdown and then reached for her iPad.” So when I’m talking about boundaries, the first boundary that I recommend for this parent—this is going to give her some practice for the next one. The first one is boundaries around the devices, because a lot of reasons. But studies show that giving children free access to tech devices, it interferes with, among other things, the development of self-regulation. And that’s a big part of what you’re working on here. So children aren’t able to process uncomfortable emotions as they need to to build resiliency, because every time they’re going there, there’s a distraction for them. There’s this very powerful and potentially addictive distraction for them that allows them to avoid all the natural, typical feelings that children need to have, that they need to experience, and learn, with our support, that these are normal. Frustration, disappointment, boredom, anger, sadness. Life gives children all of these natural opportunities for this. Like her mom saying, no, I’m not going to do a craft project. It’s important that she has a chance to experience that all the way. Experience that meltdown, experience all those feelings, and get to the other side of them, without having this very potent distraction to lose herself in.

And then just on a practical level, using devices as the consolation prize for our attention, that means that we’re setting up a situation where they’re going to be wanting to be on devices whenever we’re not paying attention to them. There’s no time in the day for her to be freed up to pass through that empty, often uncomfortable, space needed to be able to initiate her play, to have all the wonders and the freedom that we want to give her of the free exploration and the play. The devices are getting in the way with us being able to be a secure base and her being able to be the free explorer. Except in this case, she wants us to be the explorer with her and we’re saying no. But now she’s got this other thing that she’s going to go to that has nothing to do with all the places we want her to be able to go, which is to be comfortable and even enjoy being with herself. That’s such a lifelong gift, so valuable. And it’s not likely to happen when she has the option of either the parent’s entertainment or an entertaining device.

I think we can all relate to that, just what our devices do to us as adults, that we don’t have those moments of boredom. At least for most of us, we were able to develop our abilities to entertain ourselves. But children are in the development stage, this is much more important for them even than for us.

So that’s boundary number one that I would set. And I’d prepare myself for a lot of blasting about this, and all the questions. So be really clear, set out times: These are the times you’re going to do it and not the rest of the time. If you leave that as an open question, then you’re going to have to be setting a boundary all day long. Not now, not now, not now. So set it out ahead of time: these times every day, or these two times a week, or not at all, or whatever you decide. Set it up that way so you’re not constantly having to set this boundary, because it’ll be easier for her and easier for you if it’s established early and established clearly and solidly, with all the noise she’s going to make about it. Oh, this girl is intense. She’s got a lot of pushback that she’s going to give you, so get ready. Maybe she’ll be persuading, she’ll be pleading, she’ll be vulnerable. Let her go there. Remind yourself it’s safe, if you can hold your center, knowing that what you’re giving her is actually freedom.

After that boundary, then the boundary of you saying no. That’s the order I would work on these. Because maybe if you allow that process with that boundary and all the grief you’re going to get about it to work, then it will give you more confidence to set this other boundary. Which is, for a lot of us, it’s even harder, because, as this parent said, “I love that she wants to engage with me.” Yes, and we’re not going to taint that at all by putting parameters around when we’re going to engage with her.

She says, “I worry that her constant need for my attention means that she feels insecure about her bond with me.” I think that’s, again, a fear place that this parent is going to. Because she actually said it, “I love that she wants to engage with me.” Yes, she wants to engage. “But I worry that her constant need for my attention. . .” So that’s where we can get hooked in and guilted and worried, when we see it as a need for attention. She was correct, I believe, in the first part of the sentence: wants, she wants to engage. She wants constant attention, she doesn’t need constant attention. What she needs is a parent who can be honest with her, who can be a leader, who isn’t afraid of her feelings.

That’s such a gift we can give children, that they’re not going to thank us for right there, but it is huge. To show her, You know what? You can melt down and I’ll have all the empathy in the world, but I’m not trying to change your feeling. I’m not trying to fix it. I know you’re safe, I know it’s healthy, and I know on the other side of this is freedom. And that’s what you really need from me.

I know this is a difficult reframe, so many people have a hard time with it. And we do play a big part in this. And that’s good news, because that means we can make this shift. But we have to be committed, as with everything with children, we have to go with it and believe in it. So that’s the part to work on even first, before you work on the boundaries with the tech device or with your attention. Working on why. Why are you doing it? None of it is selfish. It’s far, far from it. It’s being heroic. It’s doing the hard things because we love our children so much and they deserve the very best that we can give them. They know it’s easier for us to say okay, they already know that. And they know that real love is the hard things.

I believe in this parent. I believe in all of us because if I could do this, I feel like anyone can. Thanks so much for listening. I really hope this helps.

And for everything about boundaries, I hope you’ll check out my No Bad Kids Master Course at nobadkidscourse.com. And also my books, that are going to be re-released now with a new publisher. They had been self-published for years, and now they’re going to be with Penguin Random House. Very exciting! They’re now on pre-order, but will be available at the end of this month.

We can do this.

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Transcript of “The Magic That Makes Kids Want to Cooperate”

Hi, this is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled.

Interestingly, lately my inbox seems to be flooded with questions about toothbrushing. So much so that I was even thinking about doing a podcast all about toothbrushing, helping kids to brush their teeth. But I kept thinking about it and it’s just not an interesting enough topic to me. I mean, it’s not interesting at all to me, to be honest. It’s this mundane part of my day, and I imagine also for kids, too. And probably—I mean, I could be wrong—but even dentists probably don’t find it a super-intriguing topic.

But then I received a question and a comment on Facebook on my post, This May Be Why You’re Yelling. The comment was not about toothbrushing, but it reminded me how all of these cooperative activities, these tasks that we need our kids to do, we want our kids to do, how they’re all related, and that there is a magical approach for helping our kids to do them.

This magic isn’t, unfortunately, a magic wand that we can just wave. And unfortunately it also isn’t saying some magic words or playing magical games, like what is sometimes offered on Instagram and TikTok for “getting” kids to do these things. This magic also isn’t about giving a child a certain period of attention, playing with a child, filling their cup. Even that, unfortunately, isn’t a formula for a child to be reliably willing to brush their teeth, help around the house, try new foods, clean up their toys. Yes, those do help to build intimacy and connection.

But the magic that works is when our relationship or connection is through and through. It’s through the happy times, it’s through the special times, it’s through the tough and disappointing times, it’s through when we’re setting limits, it’s through when our child is upset, when they’re having a tantrum. It’s staying on our child’s side, as I often say, partnering with them and, ideally, not being at odds with them with anything throughout the day. I know, this sounds probably superhuman, but I’m going to get to how we can do this.

When we do find ourselves at odds, we take responsibility for that. Because at least until kids are adult-age, it’s on us to be the more mature ones, to essentially be in charge of setting the tone for our two-person relationship. And when changes in our dynamic with our child need to be made, it almost always needs to come from us. Now, that’s good news and bad news, depending on how we look at it. It’s good news because it means we have the power to make changes at any time. We can do that, and our children will adapt readily. It’s bad news because we can’t count on our child to treat us a certain way, to be kinder to us when we’re asking for or demanding that they do something, just because they should respect us and do what’s right. If we aren’t setting the tone by modeling respect and honesty and kindness and forgiveness and helpfulness and taking responsibility for our behavior, we can’t expect our child to be the one to do those things.

The magic here, unfortunately, isn’t a magic bullet for gaining cooperation, but there is something that’s much clearer and simpler to understand and more effective and comprehensive than these bite-sized scripts and strategies that we hear about. Comprehensive in that it infuses everything, it works in all areas of our day with our child, with all kinds of behaviors. And it feels good, because it’s genuine. It’s not a strategy. And the positive effects it has are lasting and real. It’s relating to our child as—an imperfect, less mature than we are, much less mature—person. What a concept, right? Who we know intimately and we understand, or at least aim to, and we unconditionally adore.

That doesn’t mean we’re perfect. It’s this overall feeling that we have. Not every second of every day will we like the way our child’s behaving, what they’re doing, that we’re not annoyed with them. We are going to be. But we know that there’s something to understand there when we are. That there’s something in our expectation of them in that moment or something that, through their behavior, they’re sharing with us. Awkwardly, as it is with children a lot of the time. So we’re coming to that place eventually where we understand why they’re acting as they are. This is an overall job. It’s a relationship job. I know that probably sounded unclear and confusing. I’m sorry about that.

Now I’m going to explain via this exchange I had on social media with this parent who was responding to something I posted, a piece that I wrote a few years ago, This May Be Why You’re Yelling. This parent wrote:

I know I’m yelling because when I’ve asked five times, being calm, and nothing happened, I’m running out of patience. Sometimes it seems like when I talk nicely, nobody can hear me. I can’t be the only one, am I?

And I wrote back:

Can you give an example? I have a policy: never repeat yourself.

And then I link to a popular podcast of mine, Repeating Yourself Won’t Help (What to Do Instead).

This parent wrote back:

So I just read this article and I get what it says. [She read the transcript.] So here’s the latest example: Right now where I live, it’s Saturday morning, almost 8:00 AM. If my son’s behavior is induced by stress or tiredness, then he must be permanently worn out. My son, four-and-a-half years old, has a clock by his bed that indicates with a sleeping/playing bunny when he is allowed to get out of his room. He’s had it for more than a year now.

I had set this clock on 9:00 AM yesterday. I told him yesterday while putting him to bed, “Remember, you stay in your room until bunny is awake. You don’t come into our room. You let daddy sleep.” And he agreed. His dad is in an exhausting situation right now and needs all the sleep he can get.

Today at seven, our son came into our bedroom and started asking his dad a question about a new toy he got. I got up real quick, escorted him back to his room (right next to ours, and the wall is very thin, you can hear everything), and showed him his clock, whispering, “What did we agree on yesterday? You stay in your room, you are silent, you don’t wake us up.” I was upset, I admit. Plus he can’t for the life of him not talk. He talks all day long, from wake to sleep. He can’t keep his thoughts in his head.

And I don’t know how to follow your advice here in helping him to do what I ask him to do. There’s no lock on his door and he might need to go to the bathroom anyway, and I hate the thought of locking him in. And I can’t reasonably shut his mouth with duct tape to make him stop talking. Any thoughts?

And she put this distressed face emoji. And some other people commented before I was able to get back to her. Somebody said:

Lock dad in? Maybe after several times where he finds the bedroom door locked, he will just assume it’s not worth getting up to try it again. At first, maybe, with you on the outside but not really accessible to him—in the bathroom, for example—and go out if he becomes frustrated and help him work through it. But please, anybody correct me if you don’t think it’s appropriate.

That was all the comment somebody made back. And the original commenter said:

There aren’t locks anywhere on our doors. And the whole thing is about not waking daddy up, so we need silence. Rattling on the door doesn’t do the trick. I tried several times on other occasions to give my son a timeout in his room with the door closed, to no avail. He opens the door immediately and refuses to keep it shut. If I hold the handle from the outside, he turns total havoc, including screaming and door-kicking. And the whole point of the timeout—allowing us both to calm down by getting ourselves together before discussing the issue—is ruined because I can’t calm down either when I have to hold his door shut and listen to his screaming. So I’m stuck here.

And then a different commenter wrote to her:

What time is he going to bed? Does he normally wake up at 9:00 AM or was this a weekend thing? My son does, but I know our routine is a bit abnormal. If I were you, I would get up and go out with him so that dad can get some extra sleep.

And she wrote back:

He sleeps a good night and doesn’t lack sleep. I don’t ask him to stay in bed, much less to stay asleep. Just to stay quietly in his room. Most weekends he does just that. But this morning was particularly frustrating because I insisted on it yesterday evening and he didn’t follow through.

So then I finally commented that I had some ideas for her and it was very long, though, and I realized that this might be a good topic for a podcast. So I was going to share them here, and that’s what I’m doing now.

What I wanted to say to her is that this is one of those situations where I believe in letting go for the win, the win being next time. Because we can’t control when our child wakes up and asking them to stay in their room and wait for a clock to tell them it’s time to leave is not easy for them. And that is always going to be a voluntary activity on their part, right? It’s not something we can force if we don’t want to lock doors, and most of us don’t. And with voluntary activities, it’s always going to be about the positive connection that they feel with us. Both in general and around that particular activity, around that ask that we have of them. We make it harder for our child, and therefore for ourselves, when we make a big deal out of it not working. We get upset or mad, or we try to force them to do it, etc.

So what this parent might do instead is go into this expecting it to be an imperfect process and maybe problem-solving with her child ahead of time. “Hmm, I know sometimes it’s hard to stay in bed and to wait for that clock. What could help? Would you like me to leave some fruit or a snack bar there for you? Some special books or puzzles here by the bed?” And whether or not there’s an answer that we could both of us together figure out, I wouldn’t expect my child to be able to stick with the plan, because young children are impulsive. And the more emotion we have around something, the more intensity we have around it, the harder it is for them to not be impulsive. Because they’re absorbing that and it’s uncomfortable for them. It’s like the more we want them to do something and they feel that coming from us, the more it ruffles their feathers and the harder it is for them to do. You would think it would be the opposite, right? But he has the best chance possible of cooperating in this manner if we approach it with this kind of connection and empathy.

And then, if it doesn’t work, if he does come in or he makes some noise anyway, let it go for the win. For the win next time, and for the bigger picture of more goodwill and cooperation all around. That’s what I mean about this not being a magic wand or a quick fix, but it is magical when we commit to being on this less mature, more impulsive person’s side and requesting things from that team relationship, that very open, honest, teamwork relationship. So when it doesn’t work, we might say, “Oops.” And then while we’re ushering him out of the room, I might say, “It was hard for you to wait this time. I know, it can be so hard. Daddy will answer your question when he wakes up, of course. What would you like to do in the meantime? Let’s figure something out. You can go back to your room or play quietly here in the family room,” or whatever. Safety, connection. This is how we will get what we want. We didn’t that time, but it’s too late. So let’s give ourselves a better chance of getting it the next time and the next time and the next time, in all the other requests that we have of our child during the day.

Now, how does this look in regard to toothbrushing, or helping us with housework, encouraging kids to try new foods, help them to get dressed, or to be quiet while the baby’s going to sleep, etc. etc. etc.? Here’s some points:

1. Expect that there might be resistance and that it might not work at all. Our expectations matter because they create certain feelings in us. When we’re putting an expectation out there that might not work, naturally, we’re going to get disappointed. And whether or not that’s a reasonable expectation, I don’t know. But it turns out it’s not reasonable for this child, at this time, at this age, in this situation.

I know that for me, we didn’t have those special clocks when my kids were little and I never once thought I had any control over when they got up and came in. I remember there was one point where I had tried to encourage my older child to stay in her room a little longer, and I did put a special snack there for her, because we explored it and one of the things she wanted was something to eat. So that did help for a little while. But mostly what helped was her feeling the safety in our connection and that she wanted to try to be helpful when she could, as much as she could. I wasn’t doing anything that might unwittingly put her into a zone of being at odds with me.

Our expectations are what can give us this light attitude and help us not set ourselves up for anger and disappointment that will end up hurting our chances the next time. Let’s use the example of hoping our child would try a new food. That light attitude, I’m not expecting they’re going to try it. Why would they? They don’t want to eat something strange that they might not like, right? So I just offer it, Oh, here’s something that you haven’t tried before. It’s quite an interesting taste. Let me know what you think. Do you want to try it? Instead of, “Here, can you please try this now?” And we don’t have to say all those words about it being an interesting taste or anything, just that idea of Would you like to try this? Instead of that kind of automatic demand mode that we get into as parents. Not even a demand, but that sort of request mode that we get into with young children where we’re telling them to do this and telling them to do that. And they don’t like it and they feel like there’s that distance between us.

This is true for all of these cooperative activities that we want our kids to do. Our expectation matters. So that’s number one: Expect that there might be resistance and that it might not work at all.

2. Request from a place of authenticity and openness, maybe even vulnerability. Let’s say, the example of helping with housework. Okay, I’m going to be honest here: I did not do this thing that I hear so much being written about now, the importance of kids doing chores from the time that they’re little. I didn’t put a big importance on that. Maybe because I remember as a child that my sisters and I would get all excited about, Oh, now you’re going to do this chore and I’m going to do that chore and we’ll make a little chart and we’ll cross it off! And we wanted to do these things and got very into it for about two days or maybe a week, and then we didn’t want to do it anymore. My mother—who certainly, like all of us, was an imperfect parent—she let it go. She wasn’t one to put herself in the position of nagging at us to do things that she sensed were voluntary. Using her power that way, in a way that’s often not very fruitful for us. And she just wasn’t that kind of person.

And actually, I’m not either. I don’t like, I mean, the least amount of limits I can give… I’m actually very strict with limits around certain things, but I don’t want to be telling other people what to do all day long. That’s not where I want to put my energy. And when it’s something like this, that there has to be a certain intrinsic enjoyment of for young children for them to want to do it consistently, I trust that.

At the same time, all the way through from the time they were little, whenever I needed my kids’ help or really wanted my kids’ help for something, they never said no. Maybe I’m just lucky that way, but I really believe it’s because of the way that I asked. Which wasn’t a demand or a nag. It was, “Oh, I could really use some help here. Would you mind?” Or, “Could you give me a hand?” And because this wasn’t a dynamic where we had distance between each other, they always did. They knew I wasn’t using that “ask” card all day long. And in the rare case that they didn’t, and I honestly don’t remember this happening very often at all, but on the rare case they didn’t, there was a reason. They were unhappy about something that actually they needed to talk to me about. And at some point I would figure that out and I said, “What’s up with you? It seems like you’re not feeling that good, or you’re mad at me. Is there something we can talk about?”

So yes, I would offer opportunities for young children to help in ways that they want to. And doing chores, it’s great for their confidence, right? To know that they can do these things and contribute to the household. But I wouldn’t hold them to that in a way that became another limit that I had to try to set every day or another coaxing I had to try to do. And although I didn’t probably use this on a daily basis, I bet it would work if you did. I bet you could say every day, “Oh, and today I actually need a little help. Could you help me, my love, clean up this stuff?” Or offer a very reasonable, logical consequence that’s just honest. “I don’t want to take out more stuff until we put this away. So can you please help me put this away if you want to take that thing out?”

But I didn’t expect that they were going to have tidy rooms or that the play area was going to be clean. And in fact, I liked them to have projects that were left out so that they could revisit them the next day. But I know that’s me, and not everybody feels that way. All I know is that this works and that my kids, whenever they go to somebody else’s house, they’re always the first ones to help. They are well-mannered kids who are cooperative and helpful. So that’s two: Request from a place of authenticity and openness, maybe even vulnerability.

3. Lean in to empathy and connection. Meaning, I understand all the reasons why you wouldn’t want to do this right now. Not that I have to get into them with you and make a whole list, but I’m coming from that place of getting it. Brushing teeth, it’s tedious, right? It’s this thing we have to do to clean our teeth, but please, let’s find a way we can do this so we can get it done and there’ll be time to do these other things. What can I do to make it easier? And again, I’m not talking about saying these exact words, but it’s that approach. Leaning in with empathy and connection. Connection, meaning, I’m wanting to help as much as possible for this to happen, and we’re making plans together. “How about you do this part and I’ll finish the rest?” Or, “Here, maybe you want to try one bite of this carrot and I’ll eat the rest.” Or again, going back to the comment on Facebook, “What can we do to help daddy get this time that he needs? He’s so worn out. I’d love any ideas that you have.” This is an issue we have going on in our family, and what can we do? Or, “What can we do? I know it’s so hard to not be exuberant right next to where the baby’s sleeping.”

So that’s three: Lean in to empathy and connection.

4. Don’t come at this with intensity or be pushy or try to force or insist on these voluntary activities. (This is the only don’t on the list!) Remember, these are in the category of voluntary activities. We need the lightest touch. When we try to force or even bribe or threaten or punish in these situations that we have no control over our child doing, we and our child both tend to lose. Because we end up disappointed and maybe angry, and they end up with this feeling of distance between us, and maybe shame, maybe guilt. They failed. And for us as adults, maybe that feeling of failing makes us do better the next time. For children, it doesn’t tend to. It depletes their self-confidence. It tends to make them doubt themselves.

And interestingly, I think that might be the main point that got in the way this time with this parent on Facebook. Because she said something interesting, not back to me, but to another commenter. She said back to this commenter, “He sleeps a good night and doesn’t lack sleep. I don’t ask him to stay in bed, much less to stay asleep. Just to stay quietly in his room. Most weekends he does just that. But this morning was particularly frustrating because I insisted on it yesterday evening and he didn’t follow through.” And she also talks about times when she tried timeout with him in his room.

Let’s just take the fact that she insisted on it and the vibe her son got from her. That bit of intensity, it goes into a child’s system, and it’s almost like that ends up churning up the exact response that we don’t want and they don’t really want. Which is, Now I just have this impulse to get up and do this because it was so insisted on! So I know that sounds totally unreasonable, which young children often are, and maybe doesn’t make sense to anybody out there, but the toddler in me gets how that was a setup for failure for me, that obviously my parent didn’t intend that way. That my parent became so insistent instead of using that light touch, what I said was number two, request from a place of authenticity and openness, maybe even vulnerability. “Here’s something we need to do for dad, and how can we do this?” instead of, “This is really important and we’ve got to do this because daddy’s so tired.” Where I’m not really including my child, they’re not feeling the comfort of that connection.

I have the inkling that that insistence, along with the past experiences of the timeout in his room where she said she was holding the handle from the outside and “he turns total havoc, including screaming and door-kicking. And the whole point of the timeout—allowing us both to calm down by getting ourselves together before discussing the issue—is ruined because I can’t calm down either when I have to hold his door shut and listen to his screaming.” And right there is the common misconception about timeout. It’s sold to us as this way that is going to help children calm down and be more reasonable. Because maybe that’s what it does for us when we take a break, maybe for us it calms us down. But when we’re directing a child that they have to do this, what they’re feeling is, I’m being told to do this. I’m being punished. It’s not their choice, I want to calm down, and therefore they don’t calm down. In this case, he was screaming, but sometimes children will seem very quiet and they’re screaming on the inside. The studies show that they’re still dysregulated. They’re not calming down. In fact, they’re getting more upset because of the distance and the emotions they feel from the parent. So this parent really encapsulated right there why timeout doesn’t work, why punishments don’t help us. Definitely not in the bigger picture, but even in the short term, it didn’t help her to get what she wanted, which was for him to follow this direction.

So four: Don’t come at this with intensity or be pushy, trying to force or insist on these voluntary activities.

5. If it doesn’t work or they turn us down if we’re requesting something, let go for the win. And that’s what I meant by this parent saying, “Uh-oh, that didn’t work. Let’s try again next time, and maybe we’ll make a plan.” And it helped that I didn’t have that expectation in the first place that it was going to work. Makes it so much easier to let go. And when we let go, our child gets all that comfort and safety from us that makes them desire, and also be capable of, cooperating the next time. They want to do that for us, because we’ve shown them that we understand them, that they’re not always going to be able to do it, and we don’t hold grudges. And yeah, sure, we’re disappointed maybe, but turning against our child right there—which none of us mean to do, but it can easily happen—is not going to be the answer. It’s not going to help.

So that’s five: If it doesn’t work or they turn us down, let go for the win. For the win next time and the next time and the next time. Without snarky comments, rise above, believing in the goodness of your child and the strength of your love for each other. From those beliefs, all the best things will come.

I hope some of this helps. And for much more detail and a very deep dive into all of this stuff, to really be able to internalize what it feels like to have strong boundaries from this relational perspective, please check out my No Bad Kids Master Course at nobadkidscourse.com, and consider if that might be for you. Also, all of the resources on my website, free for you to read, and the podcast, there’s 325 now, something like that. Every topic under the sun, all together. You’ll get this perspective, if it sounds good to you. It’s certainly saved me.

Thanks so much for listening. We can do this.

The post The Magic That Makes Kids Want to Cooperate appeared first on Janet Lansbury.

Transcript of “Should We Resort to Using Force?”

Hi, this is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled.

Today I’m going to be doing something a little different, thanks to a couple who graciously agreed to consult with me here. One of them reached out via email with concerns about her four-year-old’s unwillingness to cooperate with the steps leading up to bedtime and also during morning transitions. The parents wondered if there was a point when following through with limits around bathtime, toothbrushing, dressing should mean using force. And as a couple, they have differing views about this issue. They’ve tried sticker charts, taking away storytime if she doesn’t get ready in time, working with her to help develop a bedtime routine. But none of those strategies have worked out. So they asked if I could share any thoughts that I have.

As is often the case, when I read their note, I had way more questions than I did answers. So I very much appreciate them being willing to share with us here.

Hello, and thank you so much for being here and being willing to share with me and listeners about your issues. I imagine there’s other parents going through similar things, so I really appreciate you being willing to be on with me. I would like to start with your note that you sent me a couple of weeks ago, and here it is:

Thank you so much for all your lessons on parenting and developing respectful connections with my two daughters while holding boundaries and ensuring that my needs matter too. My current challenge is with my almost-four-year-old, who often engages in testing behavior at bedtime. She stalls, refuses, or delays putting on her pajamas, brushing her teeth, getting in bed, and staying in bed. For a few weeks we used a sticker chart and that helped motivate and then that behavior stuck for a while when we discontinued the chart, but now we are back to the same testing behavior. This behavior also happens when getting ready for preschool in the morning.

So my question to you is, how to enforce boundaries that seem like they would require physical intervention within the respectful parenting framework? When she won’t put on her pajamas, do we hold her body down to do so? If she will not go into the bathtub, do we pick her up and put her in, then keep putting her back in each time she climbs out? Do we brush her teeth for her while she tries to keep her mouth shut?

This has been a major area of conflict with my husband, who believes that these actions are part of following through after providing clear limits and acknowledging feelings, while I see them as overly controlling. To me it is really hard not to see it as too physical, and triggers my own history of being held down by my older brother when I didn’t do what he wanted me to do. I don’t want to be so physical, putting on her pajamas while my daughter fights it with her body and screams. But other options we have tried, like taking away storytime if she doesn’t get ready in time, using sticker charts, working with her to help develop a bedtime routine, haven’t worked.

Any thoughts you have would be so helpful. Thank you for your help.

As I mentioned in the note that I sent back to you, one of the reasons I wanted you to come on and talk to me here is that I have a lot of questions for you about what’s going on here. If you don’t mind, I’d like to start with that. Why do you think she’s struggling this way? What do you think could be going on there that makes her want to stall and resist and refuse?

Parent 1: Well, one piece that we’ve noticed just this last week is that we’ve moved up bedtime a bit. And realizing that some of it had to do with her just being overtired, and that’s helped some. It had gotten to the point where she was kicking and spitting when we were trying to help her get to bed, and that’s not typical behavior for her. And so recognizing that she, I mean she’s often going to be tired in the evening, but she was really overtired and that was making it even more challenging. That’s one thought that comes to mind.

Another is that she has an older sister who maybe she wants to be playing with and sometimes the older sister gets to stay up a little later.

And I think another part of it is just the testing part. She can see that I’m tentative, perhaps, in terms of I’ll say, “It’s time to put on pajamas,” and she just won’t answer and she’ll walk away and I kind of don’t know what to do. And I know from reading and listening to your podcast that sometimes that confidence is needed that can help them see that I’m her strong leader. And so perhaps that also plays a role.

Those are some of the thoughts that I’ve had. I don’t know if you have any others.

Parent 2: Well, you nailed the two big ones, which are that she’s probably been overtired and moving up the bedtime over the last week I think has made a big difference. I think a lot of it is sibling-related, dealing with her big sister is a big part of it. I think that her older sister, of course, is further along developmentally and more capable and more verbal. Even though our younger daughter is quite verbal and communicative, she’s not as communicative as our older daughter. So I think it often feels hard for her to get attention, get a word in edgewise, and she’s often using behaviors that are maybe more intense to try to get some of the attention that she’s looking for. And then I think part of it is the boundaries that you were just talking about. I think sometimes the boundaries aren’t totally clear to her.

One thing that I’ll add on to that is that you and I just do things a little bit differently as parents. Like when my back was hurting and it was really hard for me to reach to the far side of the bathtub to do her bathtime, that’s one place where I put in a boundary that I don’t think you have, which is that, “I can’t wash you if you’re on the far side of the bathtub. I need you to be on the near side of the bathtub.” And so she’d learned that that’s a boundary where she can try to test it and see what happens with me. So that’s one place where, to finish a bath with her, I would pick her up and take her out of the bath. But for you, that’s not something that you like doing and it’s not a boundary that you have in your mind. So there’s a difference between the two of us there. Does that make sense?

Parent 1: Yeah, yeah, that definitely makes sense. I think that we do have differences in some of the boundaries. I think she learns some of them really well and then other times I can see that might be confusing to her, to know where the boundary is between the two of us.

Janet Lansbury: Well, I’m hearing a lot of insightfulness here on both of your parts, so that definitely works in your favor as parents and in figuring this out, figuring out what’s going on and what we can do to help. I love that you both nailed the tiredness thing. It’s so all-consuming for young children and they aren’t able to see it coming in the way that we might as adults, where we’re like, Ah, I’m getting tired. And a lot of children have the temperament where they go right into this hyperactive, really unreasonable, dysregulated place. So that’s great that you’re both noticing that element, that you can help her there by starting earlier. I also wonder how old is the older one, your older child?

Parent 2: She’s six. They’re two-and-a-half years apart.

Janet Lansbury: And do they have time together at the end of the day?

Parent 2: Yeah, they do have time together at the end of the day. They often play together really nicely in the evenings for half-an-hour or an hour before dinner, after dinner, before bathtime, before bedtime.

Janet Lansbury: Wonderful.

Parent 1: And they also share a room, they have bunk beds, so they kind of are in the same space at night too.

Parent 2: They also do have conflict between each other and they work on resolving that. There’s lots of the older sister trying to keep things away from the younger sister and the younger sister trying to destroy the things that the older sister is working on. I mean, something along those lines probably happens every day, but they often are able to resolve it on their own, and then of the times that they’re not, they’re often able to resolve it with a tiny bit of observation from one of us.

Janet Lansbury: Yes, that I would say is par for the course, that they have conflicts. And that’s actually the benefit of having a sibling, is that you learn how to work through conflicts with other children and with peers and in all relationships in your life. It’s an incredible gift that they have this kind of relationship. It sounds ideal.

Why is it that you believe, though, that this is getting in the way with bedtime? Because it sounds like, well, your younger one has to go into the bunk bed before her sister does and be alone in there, and then her sister comes in later after she’s asleep. Is that how it works?

Parent 1: There was a period where we separated them because the younger daughter would just kind of scream, not letting the older one sleep. So we tried this for a year and we would just bring our older daughter into our room to sleep until the younger one stopped screaming and then we’d carry her back into the other room when our younger daughter was asleep. It was just a long time of really wanting them to share a room that wasn’t working, in the sense that I think that our younger daughter was getting some attention. I don’t know, I’m guessing that it’s attention, just doing a lot of screaming and yelling, not letting the older daughter sleep.

But that sort of got fixed in the last few months, so we had them in the same room going down at the same time, but half the nights there’s a lot of this testing behavior. And then in the last week, really, after I sent the message, we were like, Let’s put her down earlier! And that’s seemed to have helped some in terms of the intensity of the behavior.

Janet Lansbury: So now she has her own bedtime that’s earlier and she’s going to bed without the sister there?

Parent 1: Correct, yes.

Parent 2: Right.

Janet Lansbury: And that’s working better. That’s interesting. Yeah, the children can sort of play off each other, which does make it harder for them to let go. What all of us want at the end of the day when we’re going to sleep is to be able to kind of let go. Let go of the excitement in life, let go of the dramas that might be happening, let go of how we might be winding our parents up. She sounds like a very intense person, this younger one. I love that kind of child, but it does have challenges. It can be so much harder for them to let go.

Anyway, it sounds like you’ve gotten over one hurdle by figuring this out that she got too tired, which makes everything much harder for her and harder for you. The other part here that I wanted to talk about is, since you sort of know why she’s struggling, stalling, and resisting, so we want to be able to do what you’ve done by acknowledging the overtiredness. Which is kind of fixing this from the inside out by understanding what elements are making it not work, what she’s expressing here that she might need. And then from there, partnering with her. Because even sticker charts, while totally harmless, they’re kind of pitting you against her. That’s how children feel: Here, you get to do this fun thing if you comply with what we want. Whether that’s a sticker chart or storytime, it makes children feel a distance between them and us that can kind of make these matters worse. It just looks and feels a lot different to a child than when we’re partnering with her.

Another part of this, I don’t know if it’s the way that you expressed it in the letter, but it sounds like—and you can correct me if I’m wrong—that you are kind of asking her to do these things, in terms of getting ready for bed or in the morning, and she’s not doing them. Is that sort of the way it’s going?

Parent 1: Yes, I would say that’s correct. “It’s time to get dressed.” And she won’t get dressed.

Janet Lansbury: Right. So what she’s showing is that this is a time when she needs more of a helping her through these transitions. Especially the night transition is the hardest one of all because children are tired, but all transitions tend to be challenging. And getting up in the morning and getting out the door—I mean, I can totally relate to the stalling and the procrastinating and all of that stuff because I do that myself. At this age, though, children often need that parent helping them, guiding them through the channel. That feeling that we’re totally willing to do that. And actually we want to do that, because this is a way that we get to really separate from you when you go to school in a way that feels like there’s a lot of relationship that’s a part of it. And it feels better to us, too, than getting in a battle with her in the morning or at night before she goes to bed, certainly. It can feel better to us to hold on to that I worked with her and I helped her from the beginning.

Yes, she’s four years old and can do a lot of this herself, but there are often periods that children go through with transitions where it’s like they revert back to being a one-and-a-half-year-old, where they really need us to walk them through. And she sounds like she’s either going through that or she’s that kind of person right now. It doesn’t mean you’re going to be doing this forever until she’s a teenager. But for now, I would consider both these periods—the morning and the night—as this is time that you’re going to be connected with her, that you’re going to do caregiving. It’s like baby caregiving with her, to help her get from point A to point B.

Again, it’s that feeling of distance that she has where we’re over here and she’s over there. I want you to do this and you’re not doing it. But what she’s feeling is, There’s a part of me that’s still in independent-mode. Just because you tell me to do something, I can’t do it sometimes. And just be on my side and help me through. I mean, she can’t obviously say that, but that’s often what children are needing. That we are like, okay, it’s bedtime. And you said something about that you developed a routine, so here’s a routine that she hopefully had input on: What do you need at bedtime? What do you need from me? How do you want this to go? And then knowing that no, we’re not going to be able to make a deal that she’s always going to be able to shake on and follow through with. She still needs the backup of, We’re there, we’re taking you through.

That’s how I would approach it, so that right from the beginning, you’re, “Okay, now it’s time to get your clothes on. Here we go. And now we’re going to do this, and then we’re going to do that.” And I’m not saying that it’ll all be perfect and smooth then, but that’s the way I would look at this for yourselves. And you two could take turns or whoever’s available, to give her that 100% nurturing through that time. Okay, so now she’s saying, “No, I don’t want to do that!” The thing is, children often don’t, or they do it a lot less, when we’re in there with this positive, helpful, we’re doing this together, here we go, my love vibe, instead of the it’s time for you to do this attitude. So sometimes that will actually just override. They might still go, “No, I don’t want to. I don’t want to!” But they give in much easier because they’re getting that nurturing that they’re unconsciously asking for.

Parent 2: I think that is great advice. And just speaking for myself, I’ve heard you give that advice on other podcasts and we’ve been doing that and I think it has really helped. It has been great, for me at least, to switch my mindset from I need my daughter to do these things! to, Oh wow, my daughter really needs my help right now. And I remember you saying on a podcast about hard pickups from preschool or daycare, about kids running away: “Just don’t let your kid run away from you. Get there and give them a hug and then stay by their side for the whole time and then your kid can’t run away. And then there’s no conflict there anymore.” Or with these sorts of routines, to switch from saying, Wow, I just need my daughter to do her bedtime routine, to, Oh, my daughter is really tired and she’s only three, so she doesn’t know how to do this on her own and she needs my help. And I think that has made a big difference.

Even doing that, when we go into it and we let her know that the transition is coming: it’s going to be bedtime in 10 minutes, it’s going to be bedtime in five minutes, it’s going to be bedtime in one more minute, take one more moment to do one more thing. Then when it’s bedtime, I say, “Okay, it’s time to head up for bedtime. Do you want to walk or do you want me to carry you?” I will carry her or I’ll hold her hand. And I’ve had a lot of success doing that. Even so, she might start screaming that she can’t walk, and I’ll say, “Oh yeah, you are too tired to walk. I understand, that makes sense. I’ll carry you. I’m happy to carry you.” Sometimes that works.

Or sometimes she screams, “No, I want mama to carry me!” I mean, sometimes we look at each other and maybe mama is free and can pick her up and carry her, but I think this is where I start wondering about boundaries. Because if I’ve told her, “It’s time to go up for bedtime, I’m happy to carry you, I’m here,” is that a place where I ought to be saying, You really had these perfectly good options in front of you and you said no to walking and I’m here and I’m taking the lead in this bedtime, so I’m just going to pick you up. Even though mama’s on the other side of the house and she’s fully capable of taking you upstairs, right now I’m the one who’s doing it. But then that will often become a point of conflict between my daughter and me where she’ll just be screaming for the entire bedtime that she wants mama to do whatever. Does that make sense?

Janet Lansbury: It does, it does. And it’s great to hear these details of what’s going on. So the other thing I would say is, knowing that transitions are very challenging and a time of dysregulation, especially the nighttime one for young children. She’s still totally in that category at age four, four can be a challenging age. Six does get a lot easier by then, but four is still ripe for falling apart when it’s time to do these things. So knowing that going in, I would give her the most minimal choices, if any, and I wouldn’t give her that kind of countdown. Because putting my toddler hat on or my four-year-old hat on, I’m getting wound up by that. One more minute, here we go . . . For a child with this kind of sensitivity, it can be unraveling to feel that warning vibe. I know you don’t mean it that way, you mean it very lovingly, but it can come off as, Alright, here we go . . . and like, I have a feeling there might be trouble here. That’s the way you said it in your voice saying it to me. Maybe you’re not saying it that way to her, but that trepidation feeling.

Instead I’d say, “You know what? In a few minutes it’s going to be time to go upstairs and I can’t wait to do bedtime with you.” That’s the only warning part. And saying it very positively like that and then going up to her, “Okay, come on, let’s go.” Taking her hand, putting your arm around her. You see her starting to stall, “You know what, I’m going to pick up my little baby bear” or whatever, and, “I’m so glad I can still do this!” And now she’s screaming, Mommy, mommy! “Oh no, you want mommy.”

And maybe she can’t hear you from then out, but if she goes there—which again, there’s so much more chance of it when we’re leaving open those choices and all those things that she can’t handle. It’s like, I can’t handle this, I can’t handle that, I can’t handle that. And it’s like one on top of the other and, Now, I’m done. She’s gone off into that dysregulation place. And so if she gets like that anyway, even if you do kind of come in early with this, I call it the “confident momentum” of not giving her those choices and all those pauses and all those places of making decisions that are really, really hard for most young children. Or all of us when we’re in tense periods in our life, and young children still are in their development, there’s so much going on.

Even with all that, if she’s now screaming for mommy, I would see it as, You know what? She’s venting her day right now. I would perceive it that way. And, I’m going to be the hero that doesn’t get flustered by that, doesn’t try to call in mommy.

I would not do that, even if mom’s right there. I would not try to fix it that way because it will help her if she can just let go and be gone at that point. I would just take her up. If she’s screaming, cover your ears or if she’s trying to hurt you or something, say, “You know what? I can’t.” Or don’t even say it. Just put her down and just somehow get her along that way.

When you talk about force, you could call it force, but it’s not the kind that you two are both worried about where you have to hold her down. It’s that papa bear/mama bear momentum that I guess could be called force, but it’s really more when you can’t do it yourself, I’m going to carry you through attitude. And not all these words to her. I wouldn’t try to talk to her about it, especially if she’s at that point.

Then with details like the bath, I mean the bath is optional, really. Bathing is a nice luxury, I think. I mean for me at least! But for her it’s like you could wash her, you could washcloth her back a little if she’s been playing in mud or something like that or wash her hands. And I would do that with confident momentum. “You know what, we’re going to put these hands in here and we got to do this,” and, “Oh, you don’t want to and you want mommy and this is just not going your way!” If you’re going to say anything, just be understanding that she’s falling apart and coming from that place. But a bath should really be a voluntary thing because we want to present it positively. And like I said, I think it is positive.

It’s not make or break that if she doesn’t have a bath—unless she’s been working in a construction site or something—that there’s going to be something wrong with that. It’s just that we want this routine to go, and also maybe she said she wanted to do that. And then you might say, “It looks like it’s going to be too hard for you to be in the bath, so we’re going to skip it this time.” Not mad at her, not, Well, you said!, not going up against her in that way. But really on her side, as somebody that you see is almost like a basket case at this point. This is especially true if she was overtired.

Brushing the teeth, you do the best you can. The pajamas, I mean, if she has to sleep without pajamas, it’s not the end of the world. But I think you’ll find it’s easier—I mean, you say you’re already finding it easier that she’s not overtired, but I think you’ll find it easier when you approach it as, Okay, I got to get you dressed. That’s my job, and I got to do this. And we’re not annoyed with her, because we know she’s not in her best mind right now and she just needs help. She just needs us to get her from point A to point B as best we can. It’s not purposeful behavior that she’s doing. And then I think you’ll find there’s less of it.

I wanted to talk to your partner here about her feeling tentative because that is, as you both realize, that is also getting in the way. And understandably. I’m so sorry you had that experience as a child. A lot of parents that I work with have trouble with being physical in the way that I was just describing. Having that confidence to start early with momentum, to see your job as heroic, and there are physical aspects of that. If we’re tentative, then we’re leaving open all those spaces, we’re going to keep giving her those kinds of choices. Oh, you don’t want me? Okay, daddy, and, Okay, are you ready for me to do this? Instead of, You know what, I’m going to do this. I know I’m doing the right thing, I know I’m caring for you, that you’re showing me you need my help, and I’m happy to do it. It’s not the same as going up against you. I’m overriding some of the difficulty that you’re having, is really the way it is.

Parent 1: Yeah, that’s helpful. I think it’s some of what you described as putting pajamas on, the bathtub, those sorts of things, being voluntary, I think sort of trying to better understand that piece. Because I think there are times where we can come in with that more positive attitude and catching it earlier and it works. And other times where she just hides under the bed or hides behind furniture. I think she can kind of feel her power in terms of the pajamas, getting the pajamas on. And so I guess I wonder if in that situation when she’s—I’m using the word fighting, but that’s not what I mean—where she’s just really having a hard time or testing in those moments, would that make sense to let that go? Or would you say that’s important to get her pajamas on?

Janet Lansbury: That’s interesting. I don’t disagree with you saying fighting. But what you said is so key, about the power. So yes, she’s unconsciously trying to understand also, besides feeling not her best self and kind of a mess, she’s trying to understand and reckon with, in a way, the power that this has with her parents. That when she hides, now you’re frustrated or however you’re being or mad or trying to get her out of there. So what we want to do with that is not give it power.

That’s what I meant about cutting our losses sometimes and letting go of certain things. I mean, it’s not like I can give you a set plan. It’s a feeling that you have with her of she’s trying to get you wound up by something—again, I believe on an unconscious level—and you’re not going to do it. You’re not going to take the bait because you see beyond. Going under the bed, it’s so silly. So am I going to get annoyed with that? If I have this agenda, I’ve got to do this and she’s got to have the pajamas and she’s got to have the bath, that’s going to set me up to be annoyed when it’s not going my way. But if I’m just like, I’m going to do the best I can to help my little girl, and I’m not afraid of touching her and picking her up and doing all those things. Because it is loving, especially if I’m acknowledging.

If she’s screaming for mommy and daddy’s taking her and if you’re like, “You want your mom, you don’t want me,” knowing it’s not personal, then it’s so compassionate. It’s so loving. There’s nothing even remotely abusive or wrong there for her. She’s feeling that hero come in and take care of her.

But yeah, when she’s doing that kind of silly stuff, I would say maybe, “Okay, I’m going to go file my nails and let me know when you’re ready for the book because I’m happy to read it for a few more minutes.” Very positive, very you’re not going to get me with this stuff. And that will give you confidence when you realize you’re the one that actually has all the power, not her. She doesn’t want to have the power to annoy you with these antics, and she doesn’t have to if you don’t give it to her.

Parent 1: That feels really powerful. I could just feel myself, I have to get these nine things done to get her in bed! I think that’s where she gets the power. You’re absolutely right that I am like, Okay, now how do I convince her to put on her pajamas? And now how do I convince her to brush her teeth? And if she doesn’t, I have to make her do it. So then I’m trying all the tricks. We can’t read a book, or you’re not going to get to say goodnight to your sister, all the things. I’m pulling them out because she has to get the pajamas on. But if she doesn’t have to get the pajamas on, then okay. If she doesn’t have to brush her teeth. I mean, hopefully she doesn’t not want to brush her teeth every night, it doesn’t get to that. But I don’t think it does. The other day that came up and we were like, “Oh, okay, you don’t have to brush your teeth to go to school today.” She’s like, “Oh, I want to. I don’t want cavities.” And so she still did. I think that’s just really powerful to take the air out of it all by recognizing none of it has to get done.

Janet Lansbury: Right. I love that you had that experience where she wanted to brush her teeth! What does that tell you? I mean, everything, right there. This is about your dynamic with her. That’s all. And so what she’s feeling when you’re putting this really intense agenda on yourself. I mean, look what you’re doing to yourself. You’re kind of making it impossible for you to be a confident parent right there. No. Own your power.

You don’t have to tell her and talk her into things. Say, “Okay, here’s your clothes. I’m going to put this on.” You really can’t do it? Don’t do it, then. Maybe there’s ways that you can practice with her during times when she’s not having difficulty like this, where you come in very positively with physical touch. I mean, I’m sure you do have this. You just put your arm around her right away, you’re not tentative about touching her, that you have to ask her permission for everything or whatever. I mean, I know that that’s out there. You’re not one of these people that anybody should worry about making a child do things and breaking their boundaries physically. You’re the other direction. But children read that as, She can’t be the leader. I don’t want to be the leader, but I’m kind of stuck here trying to get her to be the leader. It’s not a comfortable feeling for her.

Parent 1: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. There’s definitely a place for picking her up and helping her and coming to it from that perspective as her leader and helping her through things. And letting go when it starts to feel like a power struggle. That feeling that I have in my body is a cue that, Huh, maybe this thing isn’t necessary. Maybe she doesn’t have to eat a banana before she goes to school. Let that go. If she doesn’t want to eat breakfast, then she doesn’t want to eat breakfast. I can let go of all those things.

Janet Lansbury: And you can take it in the car and, instead of that disappointment in her, say, “You know what? We’ll bring it in the car. Tell me if you change your mind.” If you don’t mind her eating in your car, but if you do, don’t do it.

You’re not willing to engage in a power struggle. You’re just not. Not because you’re afraid of it, but you’re just too big for it. You’re way too big for it, both of you. You’re not going to stoop to that with a four-year-old. And that’s what will give her heart so much relief. That she’s not in charge of these things, that she doesn’t have to make all these decisions, that her little antics don’t throw you off your game, you two. That’s the main thing that she’s looking for here, I think.

Parent 1: Yeah. I feel like I have a new approach that’s going to really help the evenings feel. I think you’re right, there’s a sense that, Here comes the bedtime routine . . . How is it going to go tonight? So hopefully I can shift that mindset, because I’m sure she feels that too.

Janet Lansbury: Yeah. And if you’re feeling that, this girl’s feeling it for sure. It’s like seeping out of you, that trepidation. And it’s a really typical thing, you’re not unusual, that we go into these things where our child, maybe we’ve had difficulty before and now, “Alright, five more minutes until your bedtime. Okay, it’s time.” Like we’re almost asking for trouble, right?

Parent 1: Right.

Janet Lansbury: Yeah. Even though of course we don’t really want it, but that’s how it can feel.

I think it’s also wonderful that you also have the connection now that you’ve made between your childhood experience and the tentativeness that you feel. Keep exploring that, maybe writing about it from a place of that feeling, of how it felt. So you’re not writing a story about what happened from this kind of objective, distant place, but you sit down with that feeling of how that felt when your brother was doing that, and you just write from that. Ah, I’m scared, whatever comes from that. That can be a helpful way that I learned from Elisabeth Corey, by the way, who I’ve had on my show. Do you go to therapy or anything like that?

Parent 1: I have at times. I’m not in therapy right this minute, though. Yeah.

Janet Lansbury: Well, just keep in mind that that may need more healing for you to be able to put it in its place and not let it interfere with this important role that you’re taking on.

Parent 1: I think the challenge is actually sometimes more just like when my husband has to help her put her clothes on. I kind of trust myself in those moments, but I think the conflict comes when I’m watching him put her pajamas on. That’s more of when the conflict arises within me, is kind of watching that and probably putting a lens on it that’s more related to what happened to me when I was a kid. He’s just trying to get her pajamas on, and in my mind, I often intervene in those moments. And not just in my mind, I intervene and I tell him to stop because that’s what comes up for me. And so I think figuring out how to allow him to parent in those moments. I mean, I certainly think it impacts me. I think in terms of how it impacts our parenting overall. It’s more in just my intervening in those moments when he’s having to be the confident leader and take those steps that it ends up being a challenge for us.

Janet Lansbury: Well, I would just keep your sense of humor about it if you can. What both of you are doing here, exploring this, is the way that I would recommend. Because it’s like, let’s say you’re building a wooden box and you have this lid and the lid’s not going on. We wouldn’t try to force it, force it, force it on. We would look and see what’s going on here that’s making this not go on. So that’s what we want to do with children, even though obviously they’re not wooden boxes, much more complex than that. But that’s the way we want to be as parents. We want to go from the inside out, helping our child with the issue that they’re having.

In this case, I think overtiredness, way too much power, getting people wound up, and maybe too much of a strict agenda on things that, really, we don’t have the power to force that easily. Like to make someone sit in a bath and enjoy it or to make someone get their clothes on or brush their teeth when they’re holding their mouth shut. So where we don’t have power, we really want to lean into mama/papa bear, loving, loving, loving relationship. And way above her struggles and tests and all the things that happen when she’s not at her best self.

Parent 1: That’s super-helpful. Thank you so much. I feel kind of relieved that I have a plan that feels a lot more doable than I had before. Yeah.

Janet Lansbury: Good. And if she starts screaming for one of you when the other one’s having their time with her, don’t other person come bail her out. Because then that can be that accommodating thing of, I really can’t do this, and you really do need daddy or you really do need mommy right now. It’s better then to just kind of face the music and carry on, knowing that you’re being a hero.

Parent 2: Can I ask a couple follow-up questions?

Janet Lansbury: Yes.

Parent 2: Since we’ve got you on the line, and normally I just have to listen to your podcast and then guess how it applies to our particular circumstance.

Janet Lansbury: Of course.

Parent 2: So yeah, I hear what you’re saying about if she is screaming at my wife that she actually wants me to do bedtime—it happens in both directions—that that’s not her decision to make, and we’re both capable parents and either one of us can do it. We don’t need to acquiesce to that. What about this morning when she was screaming at me that I was sitting in her seat at breakfast and she wanted me to move? I mean, am I acquiescing to some unreasonable demand? I mean, I can go sit somewhere else.

Janet Lansbury: But why would you?

Parent 2: Is that me being flexible? Or am I being too stubborn if I say, “No, I was sitting here already, I’m just going to sit here,” knowing that she is going to scream a lot right next to me as I’m sitting there eating breakfast if I don’t get up and move. I mean, she ended up screaming a lot about other nonsense this morning.

Janet Lansbury: There you go, that’s your answer. She needed to scream about something. I’m really glad you brought this up, because that’s a sign that there are some places where you’re kind of letting her have power that she cannot be comfortable with, and then it’s bleeding over into these difficult situations like bedtime as well. Because when there are things going on in one area, it always makes everything harder, especially the transitional times, which are already the hardest.

It’s an unconscious power play on her part. Yeah, of course you could get up, but for what? Of course you could get her a different color cup that’s right there, but you already brought that one with the water in it. The way that you respond matters, no matter what you do. So you could sit there still and say, “No, I’m going to sit here. You can’t tell me what to do.” Or you could be like, “Well, that’s really interesting. You’re giving us the seating arrangements. I’m pretty comfortable here. This is where I’m going to stay.” With that comfortable, confident attitude, instead of responding as if she’s making a serious request. And then she will scream anyway. And I love that you noticed that in a way. I mean, I’m sorry you noticed that!

Parent 2: It’s hard not to notice.

Janet Lansbury: I know. I’m sorry that happened, I guess I should say. But that tells you right there, she was going to find something to scream about. And by me doing this totally reasonable thing, which is staying where I’m sitting and not jumping up for the four-year-old pointing their finger at me, she gets a chance to.

And she also gets this incredible message that her parents are just not going to fall for that stuff. We’re just not going to take the bait. And she doesn’t have to worry that we’re going to take the bait. Because underneath what she seems like she wants is her wanting us not to do that, her wanting us to not give her all that power, that she can be the boss of all these adults. Because she’s only four and she knows that’s trouble if she’s the boss. Who’s going to take care of her?

Parent 2: Can I ask another follow-up, though?

Janet Lansbury: Yeah. I hope it’s along the same lines, because I love it.

Parent 2: It’s along the same lines. I know I’ve heard you give people advice that when your kid is screaming, if they’re actually screaming in a way that is bothering you, you can tell them that. So part of what I was thinking at breakfast this morning is that of course I can stay in my seat, but I know she’s going to start screaming. And then if she starts screaming at me, I can tolerate that for like a minute or two, but then I’m not going to like it anymore and I’m going to want to leave. And I’ll tell her like, “Oh wow, that noise that you’re making, that’s really loud. That’s actually bothering me, so I’m going to go somewhere else.” And then it’s like she’s gotten the thing that she wanted anyway. So she does have a lot of power, you know? She can scream and I can’t stop her from screaming. And I can white-knuckle it and tolerate it for as long as I can, but I’m still a limited human being. I can only take so much of my kid screaming in my ear before I want to go sit in a quieter room to eat my oatmeal. You know what I mean?

Janet Lansbury: Yeah. So putting your hand over your ear doesn’t help enough, it sounds like.

Parent 2: I guess I could do that in between bites.

Janet Lansbury: As much as possible, we want to try to do the most minimal thing, because that shows that we’re not bothered. And ideally we see this as a kind of ridiculous thing that’s going on here and that we’re not going to play into it. But if that’s really hurting your ears and you can’t take it anymore, I would say, “You know what? I feel like going over here.”

And then, no, she hasn’t gotten what she wants there. Or she has actually, but it’s not what we think she wants. So we think she wants us to get off that chair. But what she wants is to know her leaders are unruffled, she wants to know her leaders can totally handle anything she throws at them. So you not sitting there is not her getting what she wants. But your attitude about eventually moving or not moving is going to give her what she wants, which is an answer: You know what? You can try all these things and you’re not going to blow me off this chair. I may choose to get up, but you don’t have the power to force me. It’s that little subtle adjustment of you owning your power and seeing the ridiculousness of this and the need that’s really behind it, which is, Dad, don’t play into this with me. Don’t let me be this kind of boss-child instead of the little tiny girl that I am. So it’s the way that you do it. Does that make sense?

Parent 2: That does make sense. That makes a lot of sense. And I think that’s really helpful. Thank you.

Janet Lansbury: So making it your idea. “Oh, you know what? I’m going to go over here. I’m going to bring this in the kitchen because I have some things to do,” or whatever. I mean, I guess maybe it’s acting a little bit. But have there ever been other people in your life, like when you were a kid or something, that just were trying so hard to annoy you and bug you and get a rise out of you, and you finally realized, if I just kind of not ignore them, but ignore the bothersomeness of this, they stop.

So ignoring them is different because that’s actually a kind of aggressive response of, I’m just going to ignore you for doing that.

This is, Oh gosh, here she goes. Oh well, I’m just not going to give this thing power. It’s so silly. I’m going to get up because I want to.

Parent 2: Sounds really helpful, and I hear what you’re saying about it kind of being acting, but also just saying the line of dialogue out loud kind of forces you to go along with the scene. So that is good.

Janet Lansbury: It’s acting yourself into believing it, or it’s even better when you just really believe it. When you really see this as not this tremendously annoying child this moment, but this silly, tiny person that is not really asking for you to get off the chair, but asking for you to not be wound up by her.

Parent 2: Yeah, I think that’s really helpful advice. I’ve been using your advice along those lines during bedtimes when she’s just totally overwhelmed, overtired, completely fallen apart, saying out loud, “Oh wow, you’re having a really hard time. I love you. I’m here to help you.” That has really changed my attitude about what’s going on in those moments. And I think sometimes she’s so deep into her tantrum that I don’t know if she’s hearing me at all or, if she’s hearing me, I don’t know if she’s actively processing it at all. But it still helps me.

Janet Lansbury: Good.

Parent 2: And my wife can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think I’ve seen a change in her over time as I’ve shifted that attitude and the words that I’m saying to her in those moments.

Janet Lansbury: Yeah. Another one you could say to yourself is, This too shall pass. It’s all good. My son always says it’s all good to everything, but she’s venting away. It’s all good.

Parent 1: I don’t think we realized how much of our power we were letting her take. I think this is just really useful for getting a bigger picture outside of my own brain of what’s actually going on, than how I was seeing it. Super helpful. Thanks again.

Janet Lansbury: It’s my pleasure. And that’s the key: that zooming out, having somebody else to talk to about it so you can see the bigger picture. And then when you step away from her, you can see how tiny this person is. Do you ever go out on the street and think, How did she get so small? We thought she was huge in our minds!

You two are doing an incredible job. Kudos to you. All of this self-reflection and self-awareness that you have is really going to continue to inform your relationships with these two people that you’re raising.

Parent 1: We’re lucky that we ran into your materials.

Parent 2: We really are.

Parent 1: I don’t even know. I sometimes think, what would I be doing if I hadn’t run into your stuff online? Who knows! But we are just really grateful that you are around and you’re so good at explaining it in a way that makes it clear and understandable. And providing the language at times. Sometimes “I won’t let you do that” is so helpful. Just those little things, that you just have a gift of putting things succinctly in helpful ways. So thanks for putting that out into the world.

Janet Lansbury: It’s my pleasure. And thank you so much for your kindness and again, for your generosity in being here and sharing with all of us. Bye.

Parent 1: Bye.

Janet Lansbury: And thank you all so much for listening and for your kind support. We can do this.

The post Should We Resort to Using Force? appeared first on Janet Lansbury.

Transcript of “We Don’t Like Upsetting Our Kids”

Hi, this is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled.

I love this topic I’m going to get into today because it very much relates to my personal struggles as a parent and the perspective shift that I needed to eventually work on to be able to overcome them and why that mattered. It’s the difficulty that many of us have with setting a boundary that our child resists or gets upset about. With my people-pleasing tendencies, this has been a big one for me. And while I can’t say that I’m completely cured of this, I’ve come a very long way, and I’m going to share how I’ve done that.

First, here’s an exchange with a parent who I very much relate to and appreciate. We had this exchange in Instagram messages, actually. Which I’m unfortunately not always able to respond to, but in this case, the timing worked out for me and I got on the hook. Here’s the first message I got:

Hi, Janet. I hope you’re well. I was wondering if you could help. At parents’ evening, I was told that my daughter (who started school six months ago) is emotionally dysregulated, that she cries over small things such as not being able to finish her work for the next activity or wanting to explain her ideas during focus time when she should be writing.

At home she is not displaying this. We have always let her let out her feelings, and she has become good at doing this. I usually have been calm and held her emotions. I have struggled with boundaries. Not the usual ones, such as lifestyle expectations, crossing the road safely. These are all fine. It’s been the boundary of demand that she puts on me, such as wanting me to play characters for extended amounts of time, so much that I had to say no characters at the dinner table or out of the house. And when she’s tired, she’s been controlling and wanted things a certain way. At times, I’ve adhered to that controlling behavior.

I wrote back:

This reflection you’re doing about boundaries may be the key. Why do you think it is that you cave to her demands? What do you fear about disappointing her in those situations?

And she wrote back:

Thanks, Janet. That’s a great question. Two things which I’ve never put into words before: When I cave into those demands, it’s not always obvious to me. Especially with playing characters, it’s how we entertained ourselves in the pandemic. I might get a sense of irritation, like, She’s asking too much, but I’m not always aware enough to see it for what it is, which is her calling out for a boundary, I guess. I think I’m a people-pleaser and avoid conflict. I think I fear hurting her feelings? I can happily say no to buying her things in a shop, though. Also, I don’t always feel I have the capacity to deal with the fallout when caring for her one-year-old sister.

Funnily enough, today she wanted to play characters before we entered the house. I said, “No, that’s the rule, no characters outside.” She didn’t want to come in, so I gently picked her up and took her inside. That went well. She had a little cry, but it felt like the right decision not to cave in. I think it reassured her. Where I struggle is the alarm bell that tells me that a boundary is needed now. I don’t always hear it, or if I do, I’m good at ignoring it.

So I wrote back:

Well explained! Yes, it sounds like you aren’t accustomed to sticking up for yourself with loved ones if you fear it might upset them and they might reject you. If that rings true, I can totally relate. And I would try to consider this an important step to figure out in your journey, gradually. Maybe consider what it’s like to have someone play with you or do anything that they’re not really into. It’s not a great, clear feeling, right? It’s not satisfying or truly enjoyable.

And she said:

Yes, it’s the rejection. I think I was probably brought up with conditional love, which is why it’s been so refreshing to allow my daughter all her feelings and so helpful to have you out there guiding parents through this different way. But I’ve never reflected about it so specifically like this, Janet. Never been brave enough to have the conversation. When you write about it like this, I can see how healthy it is to try to get those boundaries in because they matter to my daughter and will benefit her more in the long run, and even the short run. Thank you so much for sharing that with me. I think my goals are: Have a sheet up on the wall at home, a script for me to say if she’s being particular and what to look out for. Set a limit for character play. If I know the parameters, it will mean I can implement them. So I’ve set myself homework.

And I said:

Sounds great. And keep in mind that any amount of character play is not your job. It’s not our job to entertain our kids and, as you’ve noticed, it can create a kind of dependency. Also, without us meaning to, our ideas tend to take over our child’s, so they’re not getting the opportunity to freely and thoroughly explore their own imagination. I’m only sharing this to hopefully encourage you to give yourself permission to say a loving no. And you don’t need perfect words, just conviction in yourself as a fair and loving leader who isn’t afraid of your girl. We are teaching kids how to get along with others and how to take care of ourselves and emotional intelligence. When we’re honest about our feelings and say no when we feel no, it’s far from selfish. It’s heroic, truly.

And she wrote back:

Oh, that’s interesting. The character play is very much led by her. It’s almost in the realm of drama therapy, where I feel that her fears and feelings come out. However I agree that a sort of dependency is occurring and it hadn’t occurred to me that this type of play wasn’t really what she needed. In the past couple of days, I’ve already been saying no more and it feels good. I’m working towards reducing it down to once a day—which might sound a lot, still, it’s progress for us. I’ve just been reading your article How Our Boundaries Free Children to Play, Create, and Explore, and it’s sort of blown my mind a little bit. My daughter also enjoys the laptop. She’s not on it every day, but what will she be freed up to do if I say no to characters and no, sometimes, to laptop? It’ll be nice to see what’s inside of her, not just what she does when she’s stuck.

And I’ll just add that that article she refers to, How Our Boundaries Free Children to Play, Create, and Explore, that’s actually a transcript from another podcast episode. And it is about how these boundaries that we can perceive as negative in some way are actually so freeing for our children.

So then I wrote back to her and asked if I could please use this exchange in a podcast. And several days later she wrote back and said:

Yes, of course, especially if it can help other parents or carers who’ve been stuck in a similar cycle. Two days ago I said no characters, and we did none all day, and there wasn’t the major fallout I’d imagined. She was tearful and cross a couple of times and tried to encourage me in, but I explained that it was too much for her to be in control and that I’m her mummy. So she can just relax and play now.

It has been like the scales have fallen from my eyes. My daughter looks different to me somehow. I think because the power balance has shifted, she seems younger and calmer. I was told that she was often tearful at school and I saw her being particular at home, wanting things a certain way. It was giving me concerns. My daughter is five, and I was worried that I’d messed things up and it was too late, that the path was set. I knew something wasn’t right, but I didn’t have a clue about what needed to change. It took some reflection with your support and the courage and understanding to make the change. It’s a hard thing for me to accept that I was the problem, as I see my errors as a rejection as opposed to being part and parcel of being a human.

Boundaries are so clear to me when they’re physical things like brushing teeth, it’s not okay to hit, cross the road safely, but this boundary was an emotional one and I just couldn’t see it. I can’t thank you enough. The impact of our conversation will last long into the future, and this girl has a more confident mummy now, and she can go back to being little again. Thank you.

Wow, thank you to this mummy and she really articulates her whole process so beautifully. I can’t say how much I appreciate this.

I want to touch a little more on what gets in our way. Often it’s old feelings, worries, fears that we’ll get rejected if we assert ourselves too much. Maybe we felt that significant others’ feelings were our fault and that our behavior—meaning us, in the way a child thinks of that. When we scold a child for being bad, they take this as that they are bad. So as the child, we might believe that we’re making people feel a certain way, and that’s scary and guilt-inducing, and we have to be careful, right? Whenever we’re stuck and concerned and it feels like maybe there’s a cycle that’s continuing that we don’t know how to stop, looking into our feelings around boundaries is often the key.

And here’s another parent who wrote a comment on a post that I put up on Instagram about being stern and how setting boundaries with confidence is not the same as sternness. Sternness doesn’t really project confidence. It’s overkill. If we think about the feelings behind when we’re stern, we’re usually not feeling on top of it but under it. So we force it a bit. And that’s why it doesn’t work as well as really projecting confidence as a leader. Children are sensing what we’re feeling, that we’re not comfortable. So I put up a post about that and this wonderful parent who often comments on my posts, and I love that, she wrote:

This is something I’ve been having to work on. And in most situations, it honestly feels uncomfortable to me to set boundaries. I overthink the perfect words and then get so confused about what to say or do whenever I know my child is stuck and needs my help.

And I replied:

Great that you’re getting to this. “It honestly feels uncomfortable to me to set boundaries.” That’s the key right there—exploring why you are so uncomfortable, what you’re afraid will happen, what you might lose by upsetting your child and sticking up for yourself. Figuring that out and making peace with it is the answer. Realizing that our children need us to walk through those fears for them. This is far from selfish. I would dig deep on this with yourself, ideally with a counselor or therapist. Because the words we say matter very, very little. It’s all about how we feel when setting and holding the boundary. When we are stern, it usually means we’re uncomfortable or unsure of ourselves and trying to compensate. That’s why it doesn’t work as well.

This parent, as I said, often leaves comments and they are very focused on words. So I felt like this was such a gift that she’s gotten to this place of recognizing that really she could say any perfect word in the world and her child would still sense her discomfort, because it’s there.

Of course, none of us want to upset our children. We never want to upset them, right? But here’s what helped me, focusing on these things that I do want and that most of us do want.

One, we do want to teach them about self-care and boundaries in relationships. This is the most profound way that they learn that: through their relationship with us and our self-care and boundaries. So it’s not just respecting their personal boundaries that teaches them that, not handing them over to the adult who wishes to hug them, but it’s ours also that instill this.

Two, we do want them to succeed with peers and other adults, to be liked. Because they know how to respect and not overstep other people’s boundaries. We’re teaching them that.

Three, we do want to avoid unwittingly adultifying our kids. Giving them unsettling responsibility and power over us, making them responsible for choices that are really ours to make. So I don’t mean this to the extent of adultifying a child that’s seriously harmful or abusive. That happens, but that’s not what I’m talking about here. I’m talking about our children deserving the freedom and the messy emotional fluidity of childhood. And when we’re tentative around that, their feelings, and maybe afraid of them, it interferes with that. As that first parent shared about her daughter, she said, “My daughter looks different to me somehow. I think because the power balance has shifted, she seems younger and calmer.” That’s big, right? And don’t we all want that for our children? The way to get there isn’t always what we think. It’s doing this hard thing. Standing up for ourselves, being personally honest with them. And not loving it when they’re upset, but not fearing that either. Facing that music.

Four, we do want a free and clear, honest relationship, rather than one where there’s resentment or annoyance on our end. That means sticking up for ourselves, not giving into demands that we aren’t really into.

Five, we do want emotional health and resiliency for our kids. They need to vent these emotional roller coasters they’re often riding, particularly in the early years and in adolescence. Getting upset about our reasonable, honest boundaries is the organic, therapeutic way children do that. And they learn that the feelings are normal and healthy and that they pass and then they feel better. And that starts with us knowing that and showing them that, because that’s what we believe. And these feelings are not really about their need for us to play characters or do that specific thing. It’s a bigger theme that they’re expressing. Reminding ourselves of that is how we’ll be able to do this.

And knowing that this is a priceless message that we can give our kids that will help them function in their world. They’ll know that they won’t always get things their way and that they can be disappointed for a time, but soon they’re going to feel better. And they can live with it. It’s not a scary, strange, overwhelming situation for them. It’s life. Sometimes things go my way, sometimes they don’t. And I can handle both. I prefer them going my way, but I’m not tied to that, because I know I can make it through the other situation as well.

And the last point, we do want the profound bonding effects of welcoming our children to share uncomfortable emotions. You’ve heard me talk about that a lot, and many of you have experienced it and you’ve shared that with me. The safety we can provide another person by accepting and allowing them to feel however they do, even if we are the cause of their disappointment or their anger.

So for all those reasons—and there’s six there, and there’s probably more if I think about it—we might be encouraged to work on processing our own discomfort. Which can indeed be a lifelong, continuous process. But any step we can make towards that will make the day-to-day of our job as parents easier and set every relationship in our life in a more positive, authentic, trusting direction. We’re worthy.

And now I thought it might be helpful to share what’s actually a follow-up question that I received in regard to a podcast I did a few weeks ago, Coping With Your Child’s Possessiveness. Because this also relates to the idea of upsetting our children by setting limits. And sometimes it can cause us to be tentative, which doesn’t help our child as much as when we can proceed with confidence. Knowing that yes, they may get upset, but that can be a natural—and even I would say a healthy—reaction to our boundaries.

Here’s the message. It was on Facebook, actually, where I posted Coping With Your Child’s Possessiveness. And the parent said:

The day after listening to this podcast, my three-year-old got very upset about his new baby brother wearing the same diapers that he wears. My husband picked them out without thinking. He tried pulling it off of him. So I tried to remember what you said and replied, “Oh man, I know that’s so hard seeing him wear the same diapers. I can’t let you take those off him, though,” while as gently as I could trying to release his grip. I hope that was the right way of going about that.

I also know you said it’s okay to allow them to take a few toys, but if it seems they’re stuck to kindly stop them. However, what if it’s a teething item in the baby’s hand and they shout, “I want that! It’s mine!”?

And here’s what I responded:

Yes to this, well done!

Where she says, “‘Oh man, I know that’s so hard seeing him wear the same diapers. I can’t let you take those off of him, though,’ while as gently as I could trying to release his grip.”

I added:

You can be firm, though. With that wonderful empathizing you’re doing, removing his hand as easily as possible will come off as love and care. Too gentle can come off as tentative, which won’t be as helpful to him. And regarding the teether, no, I wouldn’t allow him to take that away from the baby. So do the same: acknowledge and firmly, kindly block or remove the teether from your older child’s hand.

So yes, sometimes we can feel, Aah, I want to do this so carefully, and that projects our own discomfort in a way, or our lack of conviction in what we’re doing. And it kind of prolongs the interaction for our child, instead of doing the kind thing and just taking it out of their hand. And again, that idea of empathizing is what makes this a loving interaction rather than an overly strict, harsh interaction.

For more about boundaries and our children’s feelings and responses, for more encouragement, more examples, more demonstrations, please take a look at my No Bad Kids Master Course, because I’m able to offer some video demonstrations, some of them are with children. Many people have told me that this has been a game-changer for them, so have a look. And my books (No Bad Kids and Elevating Child Care) of course are available on Amazon. We’ll put the links in the liner notes and in the transcript of this podcast. Thank you to these parents for allowing me to share their comments and our exchanges.

And please know: every one of us, we can do this.

The post We Don’t Like Upsetting Our Kids appeared first on Janet Lansbury.

Transcript of “How an Angry Mom, Hating Parenting, Found Immediate Success”

Hi, this is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled.

Today I’m going to be sharing a note I received from a parent, the subject line, “Immediate Success,” and she details what she did to break out of this pattern that she was in that wasn’t working. She was doing all kinds of things as a parent that she doesn’t believe in, that she didn’t want to do. Feeling angry. She says, “I defaulted to anger and to what I’d seen my parents do.” And then she made a shift, which she talks about. Now her children are telling her they love her and she’s feeling worlds better about their relationship, herself as a parent, and their days. I’m excited to share this note with you and also offer some commentary on why I think what she did is helping.

And the reason I thought this would be a wonderful thing to share today on my podcast is that I’m often offering examples of what to do differently, but to actually hear from a parent what she did differently is, I think, much more powerful and will be much more helpful to you.

So here’s the note I received:

Dear Janet,

First off, I just have to say, wow, thank you. I’m not normally inclined to leave feedback either positive or negative on things. However, I just had to let you know the impact you have had on my 4-year-old, 2-year-old, and 11-month-old, and me this last week. I will never go back to the way it was before.

Here’s the story. I had listened to some of your podcasts and read some of your blogs before my first was born. I remember thinking how great it sounded to parent with this style and wanted to implement it. I did, of course, do things as you and others recommend throughout the beginnings of my daughter’s early life without much effort. Telling her I needed to change her diaper before doing so, giving her a heads up on things to prepare her for transitions, etc., And it was pretty easy going for a while. I had friends comment on how patient I was and how amazing I was as a mother. It felt really good to hear those things because I had no experience with children prior to having one, so I was worried I would be a terrible mother.

Then I got pregnant with my second. My daughter was about 10 months old at the time. Things were still going pretty well, until she was about 16 to 18 months old. She started throwing tantrums and exhibiting behavior that people would call the terrible twos, and I began to worry because she wasn’t even two yet. Why is she having such strong feelings already? I really struggled with this because I have a pretty flat affect and I was the good kid in my family, because I saw with my older sister what happened if you didn’t toe the line. Don’t get me wrong about my parents. My sister was a hellion and I just wanted nothing to do with it. I had a very loving home and my parents are my best friends. And I want that so badly for my children, to have that kind of strong relationship with my husband and I.

Fast forward to the present and the situation that brings me to this email. I now have baby three, which will be turning one next month. And your teachings had all but gone out the window due to the stress of strong emotions from my toddlers, fighting between the two toddlers, my son not being nice to his baby brother and saying that he doesn’t like him. Tantrums, screaming, hitting, throwing, and everything in between. I have spent so much time in the last four years being so much angrier than I ever wanted to be as a mother. I defaulted to that, I defaulted to what I had seen my parents do. I had tried timeouts, spanking, and on a number of occasions yelled to where the crying and screaming that set me over the edge went up to a higher decibel of noise.

I couldn’t handle it anymore. I felt terrible and thought terrible things about the fact I had these three beautiful children, but I hated my life. I was in the military for 15 years. I went to Iraq and Afghanistan four times, lost friends, been blown up, can’t hear very well—and I wanted that life back. That life was easy. Being a mom is hard.

Last week as I was driving home with my children asleep in the car after a visit to my parents’ house that didn’t go very well, I thought, Enough is enough. This isn’t working. By the grace of God, I remembered Unruffled and immediately started devouring the podcasts on the drive home. It all started coming back to me on what to do. So as I got them in the house and put them in their beds asleep, I knew I would give your way a shot, starting fresh in the morning.

It has been a life-changing difference in just one week. Sure, there’s still sibling infighting going on, some mild tantrums here and there, and my son still likes to pick on his baby brother. But everything has just been so much calmer and happier in the house, especially me. I have been happy. The toddlers have been saying “I love you” so many times throughout the day that I know they can feel how much different it is in the house. I’m here for them and I’m on their side now.

The biggest testament to the success of the switch was on Sunday. We go to a traditional Latin Mass Catholic church that is an hour away from our house. Sundays are so hard. I don’t think I’ve been able to pay attention in church since my daughter became mobile, and then it has gone progressively downhill since then. I knew that Sunday was going to be the test to see how much this has helped. It was a miracle. Sure, I still didn’t get to pay attention in church, I was still having to manage the children by giving them snacks, making sure they were staying in the pew, and doing stuff all parents have to do in church to keep the peace. But it wasn’t an absolute fight. I wasn’t angry with anyone. It was just calm direction.

I can’t even describe properly the change that has come to our family without writing a novella to you about the last seven days. Bless you and all that you do to save us parents from ourselves and help us to be the best we can for our children.

So here’s what I wrote back to her. I basically wrote back that I do want the novella! I said:

This news is so wonderful to hear. Thank you, thank you, thank you for taking the time to share with me. I’m wondering if you’d like to share more about what you’re focusing on or doing, what shifts you’ve made specifically that are helping you. But no worries at all if you’re too busy. If you are open to allowing me to share your story (anonymously), it can sometimes help parents a lot to hear how others are using this approach and making positive shifts. Please know that either way, I’m so grateful to you for making my day—or month, rather!

And she wrote back to me that she’d be happy to do that, but not right now, she was too busy. And then eventually she wrote:

Dear Janet,

Sorry for the delay in response. Some of the shifts that I’ve made with my toddlers:

1. Instead of saying things like, “Knock it off,” “Don’t hit so-and-so,” “Don’t take that toy from the baby,” and other such demands, I’ve really worked on rephrasing it to things like, “Hmm, seems you really want that toy. I won’t let you hit so-and-so.” “Wow, seems like you’re really upset.” And it’s really helped me defuse the situation before I get angry.
2. Another example that had just happened this morning with my 11-month-old. I’m guilty of doing whatever it takes to stop babies from crying. That normally means picking them up and holding them, nursing, changing diapers, etc. Mostly picking them up and holding them if I know they don’t have other immediate needs. This morning I was trying to do something in the kitchen and my son was playing with a couple of trucks when all of a sudden he started crying. Normally I would pick him up, but instead I looked at him and said, “I hear you. What is it that you need from me?” I sat down on the floor with him and waited. He crawled over and handed me a truck. I said, “Oh, you didn’t want to be picked up. You wanted me to play with trucks with you. I’ll try to be better about responding to your needs in the future.” We sat on the floor and played trucks for quite a while.
3. Another example this morning with my toddlers. They were scratching each other, leaving really bad scratches, something they had never done before. I tried things like, “It seems you really want to scratch. I can’t let you scratch your brother.” Then time would pass and another scratch would occur. Finally feeling a bit defeated but determined to avoid my old ways, when my four-year-old daughter asked to be on my lap, I talked with her. “It really seems like you want to scratch your brother. I don’t understand what’s going on. Can you maybe tell me about it?” This is where I figured she wouldn’t really have the words to explain anything, but I was open to whatever came next. She said, “Yeah, there’s a lot of snow outside and we’re inside. That is why I’ve been scratching.” My response: “Wow, thank you for telling me. I’m sorry I didn’t understand what was going on earlier. Let’s get all our snow clothes on and go outside and play while the baby’s taking a nap. When he wakes up, we’ll come inside. So let’s be quiet and hurry up and get ready so we can play longer.” Immediately, the shift in attitude was clear and happy again. Phew!

It has been an amazing shift in the household ever since I have adopted this approach. I’m more open and honest with them about stuff too, thinking that maybe they can handle my emotions too. For example, “I need you and your brother to go play in the living room while I finish making dinner. I’m getting really frustrated with you guys leaving toys right here that I end up tripping on.” Sure, there’s probably a better way to go about that, but it’s better I get it out that way than letting my feelings escalate to where I yell at somebody or something.

There have been many instances prior to this switch in approach where my son or daughter would say, “Dear God, make äiti happy. Amen.” Äiti is the Finnish word for “mother,” and it just breaks my heart that these little people are trying to pray away my frustration. Since taking on this approach, they haven’t said that once. Instead, there have been so many more hugs and them telling me they love me.

I know I have a long way to go. There are a lot of times that I’m not sure exactly what I should say in the moment. It will get easier with time, I’m sure. Eternally grateful.

So one thing that seems amazing to me just off the bat is that this parent was able to make a shift so quickly. Because that can be hard to do, right? We get set in our ways, our children get set in theirs, and even if we have an idea of what we might try to do differently, it’s hard to really keep the focus on doing that. So kudos to this parent for so many things, and especially for sharing all of this so that I could share it with you.

And now I want to suggest three things that are definitely all related that I notice that she’s doing differently, that are helping her to make this shift.

First, she’s seeing beyond the behavior. She’s noticing, she’s seeing in. It can be so challenging to see past those icky behaviors our children are showing us, right? We just want to snap back or say, “Stop doing that. What are you doing? Cut it out.” But the problem with that is it keeps us stuck on that level with our children and can create more and more distance between us. And more discomfort for everybody, which means more behaviors like these. When we see beyond, to the cause of the behavior, and consider the why, we get ourselves unstuck from that judging, correcting place that’s on the surface. That’s how we make a difference.

And with this parent, she said, “Instead of saying things like, ‘Knock it off,’ ‘Don’t hit so-and-so,’ ‘Don’t take that toy from the baby,’ and other such demands, I’ve really worked on rephrasing it to things like, ‘Hmm, seems like you really want that toy. I won’t let you hit so-and-so.’ ‘Wow, seems like you’re really upset.’ And it’s helped me to defuse the situation before I get angry.” So she talks about this as rephrasing, which is definitely what she’s doing. But what she’s also really doing is speaking from a place that represents a mind shift in her and in her perception in the way that she’s seeing her child. She’s shifting to a place in what she’s saying to being open to the feelings, to the point of view of the child, and by doing so, dealing with the behavior at the source, at the cause level. And that is the only real way to solve or change any dynamic that’s going on with our children and us.

What happens if we work on making this shift at the perception level of what behavior really signifies and what our role is in stopping the behavior, if we want to look at it that way, or certainly changing the dynamic, that will free us from this need to have to feel like we’re searching for words and rephrasing. Though sometimes it does help to start the way this parent explains that she is—although I think she’s doing more than rephrasing here, I think she is changing her perspective—but when we shift our perspective to even go a little in that direction, the words come to us naturally. So that’s the direction to keep going in. And it’s okay to go from the outside in, with words, but the real change and the most effective change will come when we keep working on that perspective, which is what I talk about all the time in this podcast.

The second response that she’s offering here that’s helpful is actually wanting them to express their feelings, to share those feelings however they can, and acknowledging them. And this is also something you hear me speak about all the time on this podcast. The reason I do so is that it’s countercultural, it’s counterintuitive for us to do this. As she said, “Another example that just happened this morning with my 11-month-old. I’m guilty of doing whatever it takes to stop babies from crying.” So I don’t see this as any reason to feel guilty, but that is a pattern that a lot of us are encouraged to start with babies, that they are somehow this sort of slightly different species or this different stage of life where their crying just needs to be stopped. And all of it is expressing a need for the parent to do something other than listen. And while that is true, a lot of the time with babies, it could be this automatic response that we give. There are times when they really just need to share.

I’ve seen this in my classes. This new person came in the room. I don’t know this person. Another parent coming in the class, let’s say, a new parent that they haven’t been exposed to before. And they’re coming and sitting near me and I feel their energy. Some children are very sensitive to that. Or, Ahh, I’m overstimulated. It’s all too much. Everybody was talking, or we went out to a restaurant or to a market. Babies are very sensitive to that. So there are reasons that they cry other than, I need something right now. And yes, they do need something, but sometimes what they need is just to share that, to discharge it, to unpack it with us.

If we can start seeing babies that way, it will help us to make a seamless transition—or a more seamless transition, at least—to the toddler years, when there are tantrums and meltdowns and whining and all kinds of expressions that children just need to share, without us jumping to fix them. There’s nothing wrong with picking up a baby, for sure, or picking up a child of any age, but as this parent realizes, that’s not always the answer. And having that mentality that we’re supposed to do that can make it harder to adjust and not be this fixer. And the fixer of feelings is going to get worn out with a toddler, for sure. Especially toddlers that are a little dysregulated like these seem to be, with all the transitions in their lives and maybe absorbing the feelings, the anger that the parent has had. That’s normal to do. Children absorb it, then they vent it out in all these different ways. So ideally, they need to be allowed to, right? The feelings, right from the beginning, right from our baby’s birth, the feelings are healing.

Also, often, the feelings are the key to all these behaviors that are going on with our child on the outside, the ones that we want to get mad about, right? I mean, it’s normal to. Those feelings are what’s driving the behavior. And the ability to reason—which young children have, babies have—it often takes a backseat or it doesn’t come along at all when there are feelings. So letting feelings be, welcoming them, rolling out the red carpet. You’ve heard me say all these things. Yes, it’s hard to let children have their feelings. We all want to fix them as soon as possible.

This is especially common, even often advised, with babies. Just pick them up. And one of the problems with that, besides that it’s not encouraging our child to communicate nuances to us, is that we’re perceiving all their crying in a kind of black and white manner, as one-note. And also, again, encourages these reflexive habits in us. It’s harder to try to make a transition than it is to work on perceiving feelings as nuanced communication from our baby’s birth. Wanting to know what they’re saying, being attuned, wanting to understand so that we can respond accurately. This is the beginning of developing an attuned relationship with our children. Acknowledging doesn’t mean giving in to what our child wants in that moment.

And one little note for this parent: I only want to encourage her, but also add that as she gains confidence in the benefit of her children expressing the feelings, how healthy this is even when it sounds really bad to us, she’ll be able to brave the next step. Which is not trying to fix them another way by giving our child exactly what they say they want in that moment if that’s not convenient for us, if that’s not what we want to do. Because that’s not always going to be possible or sustainable. Maybe we don’t want to play with trucks at that moment. That’s valid, and it’s not as positive for us or our child to do things for them just to please them. It’s a quick way to depletion, to resentment, to more frustration. And it’s less practice getting somewhat comfortable (we’re never going to be super comfortable) being in disagreement with our child. Having them be mad at us, disappointed in us, frustrated because of us, or even just frustrated if it isn’t because of us, to allow that to be. We all need practice with that, again, because it’s countercultural, counterintuitive, the hardest thing that we do as parents. But this is really what’s helped her to make the shift.

Now I think she’s going to be ready soon to take it even further to, Oh, I don’t have to please my child after they’ve communicated to me, either. Just that communication and me accepting it and acknowledging it has a bonding effect, is giving my child what they need. They don’t need me to say yes all the time. What they need is for me to be honest, actually, and say yes only if I really feel yes, from a place of genuinely wanting to do it, not yes, because I can please you and I will.

Now the third thing. Again, these are all very interrelated, as you can tell. From this open, accepting, nonjudgmental, undemanding place this parent has found: explore. The example she uses is:

Another example this morning with my toddlers. They were scratching each other, leaving really bad scratches, something they had never done before. I tried things like, “It seems you really want to scratch. I can’t let you scratch your brother.” Then time would pass and another scratch would occur. Finally feeling a bit defeated but determined to avoid my old ways, when my four-year-old daughter asked to be on my lap, I talked with her. “It really seems like you want to scratch your brother. I don’t understand what’s going on. Can you maybe tell me about it?” This is where I figured she wouldn’t really have the words to explain anything, but I was open to whatever came next. She said, “Yeah, there’s a lot of snow outside and we’re inside. That is why I’ve been scratching.”

So from an open, nonjudgmental place, this parent wants to understand. She’s going beyond the behavior, seeing the communication, that there’s something here that’s being said. So this open, accepting, nonjudgmental part is really important because it isn’t going to be helpful, it’s not going to work if we say this differently. Like, “Why are you doing that?,” with judgment. So we have to work on one and two: First one, seeing beyond the behavior, and two, wanting children to express their feelings and point of view, to share them however they can. So those two elements have to be part of us exploring. Or else it’s not exploring, it’s criticizing, shaming, lashing out at. All those things that can be reflexive for us to do, but they don’t help, as this parent has noticed. What she’s doing does help.

I love that she said, “This is where I figured she wouldn’t really have the words to explain anything, but I was open.” She was open. And children surprise us when we’re open to them, when we believe that they probably know more than we think they know. That they probably do understand way more than they can say. And in this case, she was able to express it, too. Beautifully, actually. So that right there is the response, what this parent did.

Here again, I just want to lovingly caution this parent that her relief in making her child happy with the snow, going out and playing in the snow, it’s a little bit part of what she mentioned earlier about doing whatever it takes to stop her babies from crying. I don’t think she should feel guilty about that, but it’s something to look at, because she does that with this outdoor play and with playing with the trucks. So that’s where I recommend she keeps heading in that direction, into normalizing all the strong disappointments that her children need to express in a day.

In times like these, especially as the parent has shifted some things in only a week, there’s going to be some carryover that children need to vent from this change. Even though it’s such a positive change, right? But still, there are feelings, there are feelings about every kind of change. So all the more reason for this parent to trust herself and what she really wants to do. And that the feelings are the healing, and it’s not up to her to stop the crying. Often we will disappoint children in the moment by giving them what they need in the bigger picture, a safe place to vent and to feel accepted. It’s an opportunity, if we look at it that way.

I love how this parent shares her process and the way she frames it, that she’s starting with changing the words. At the same time, it really does seem that rephrasing is helping her to understand and feel this new perspective. And to answer what she says at the end. “I know I have a long way to go. There are a lot of times that I’m not sure exactly what I should say in the moment. It will get easier with time, I’m sure.” I want to say yes, it will get easier. And she will know what to say if she keeps practicing wearing this lens with those three elements, this relationship lens. It’s a relationship between two whole people who both have needs and wants, one of whom is much newer to the world and more open and easily overwhelmed by their emotions and expresses them impulsively. So these are not two people on an even plane in terms of ability and maturity, far from it. And that’s why they need us so much to see them, to help them express all their feelings in safe ways. To show them, through these opportunities, what an unconditionally loving, respectful relationship between two people with sometimes opposing wants looks like. And it doesn’t unfortunately look like pleasing our child at our own expense. We matter too. Our child needs us to, even when we’re displeasing them.

I promise this parent and everyone listening that with practice, this will become our lens and guide us throughout our children’s lives. Once it sticks, we never lose it. Sure, we might get sidetracked by our own feelings and stress levels and priorities for a while, but we can always readily find our way back. We can do this.

And I have one more thing to share with you. If you’re sometimes confused or aggravated by your toddler’s behavior and you find yourself pleading, manipulating, or bribing, threatening or punishing your child. It doesn’t feel good, right? Maybe you end up yelling and then feeling guilty or just breaking down in frustration. I get it. If you want to learn how to remain more calm and present, not faking it, but feeling it, even during your child’s most difficult behaviors, the No Bad Kids Master Course is for you. If you’re exhausted by all the parenting tips and tricks and quick fixes, and you want a more fulfilling, effective way to relate to your child, this course is definitely for you. And if you want to build a lifelong bond with your child based on love and mutual respect, if you want to learn to really enjoy and take pride in your parenting, let’s go. I promise you, we can do this. Go to nobadkidscourse.com.

The post How an Angry Mom, Hating Parenting, Found “Immediate Success” appeared first on Janet Lansbury.

(Learn more about Janet’s “No Bad Kids Master Course” at: NoBadKidsCourse.com)

Transcript of “Angry Outbursts, Screaming, and Mean Words”

Hi, this is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled.

Today I’m going to be responding to two questions I’ve received from different parents. There are a lot of similarities in these issues: These are both four-and-a-half to five-year-olds, intense children, those kind of vibrant, strong, intense personalities, and they both seem to be angry, screaming, saying unkind things to their parents and siblings. And these families express that they’re feeling desperate, that they’re doing something wrong, this isn’t getting better. What can they do?

I’ve got to admit, I feel a little humbled in responding to these dynamics expressed in emails, because it’s complicated, right? And how can I really know what’s going on there? I can only do my best based on the many other families I’ve worked with and what I know about child development and behavior, what it means, what we can do to make things better for ourselves and for our children. And so I’m going to do my best. Just having this feeling today like, Wow, this is a lot to try to take on. I’m game, though.

Here’s the first question:

Dear Janet,

I don’t know what I expected motherhood to be, but it’s a million times more challenging than I would’ve dreamed. I have two beautiful daughters. One is turning five tomorrow and one is two-and-a-half. They’re both very spirited, fierce, vibrant souls. I’m writing today in regards to my oldest. I can’t help but cry as I type this because I’m feeling so very lost and confused by this current season we are in—and I hope it’s just a season.

I consider myself a pretty aware and rational person, and I’ve tried to adopt your approach through your book No Bad Kids. Recently, my five-year-old has become extremely mean and angry towards me, my husband, and my youngest. She can also be super sweet, but this recent shift has me at a loss. We do our best to remain calm, but she’s calling us names, a lot of “meanest mama, stupid, I don’t love you,” etc. But the tone and attitude behind it feels deeply angry. She seems like she’s very intentionally trying to be hurtful. I don’t understand where it could be coming from. It seems mostly triggered by her being told no and not getting what she wants.

I listened to a recent podcast you did about being the sun and rising above difficult behavior, but I’m equally struggling because it doesn’t seem like she should be able to get away with treating us and her sister this way. Perhaps that is some of my childhood being triggered by it, as you’ve mentioned. Is there a way to approach and handle this aside from only telling her it’s not okay to talk to people in that way? We don’t discipline her or give her timeouts, but I feel there has to be something I’m missing.

I’m so terrified of parenting the wrong way. I hope I’m not letting too much go. At this stage, I’m also terrified of what she’ll be like at another five to 10 years from now if this type of anger and hurtful behavior is already surfacing at four to five years old. I’m trying my very best not to take it personally, but it does make me feel incredibly depressed. There’s a fair amount of consistent screaming in our house when I feel they should be happier. They have an extremely loving home. Both parents are pretty patient most of the time. Maybe my expectations for their behavior are too high. Her teacher says she’s amazing and we don’t receive any reports from school, so I know she’s only this way with us.

I’m desperate to learn any tips or approaches for this period. Lately I’ve been trying to focus on remaining calm, making light of things, but I’m shocked at the level she’s taking things.

Thank you so much for your time and guidance.

So I did write back to this parent with a couple of questions. My first question to her was, “Do you have a sense of what might have caused this shift? Any thoughts about what’s going on with her and what might’ve changed recently?”

She said:

When reflecting on the past few months, there are a couple of things I’d consider big events. First, she is no longer napping Monday through Friday in her preschool since she’ll start kindergarten next year. She does typically nap at home on Saturday and Sunday. When she moved up to this class in September, we saw an immediate change in her behavior upon pickup. Evenings were, and still often are, very difficult. She tends to immediately break down and go into full-on screaming tantrums over small things like being asked to wash her hands. I attribute this to no nap.

Secondly, I potty-trained her sister the first week of October. That caused her sister to become much more attached to me than she already was. My husband and I used to take turns with bedtime, switching every other night. But I was putting her sister to bed every night until this past week, when we made it a point to reinstate the every-other-night routine. I was concerned my older one would feel I was choosing her sister over her.

They are both very ONLY MAMA. Her sister also has very intense tantrums involving a lot of screaming, which I know can be hard on the older one at times. I find them more forgivable because she is two, versus my older one who will be five in mere hours. Other than these two events, nothing else has changed in her routine.

And then I asked her, “Can you tell me a little more about how you’ve been handling responding to her behavior? Examples?”

She wrote back:

Honestly, until this past week, I would break more. After listening to your podcast about not becoming triggered, making light, etc., it really resonated with me and I’ve made a point to try my very best to use this approach. But again, it’s only been a few days. It’s actually a huge learning and growth opportunity for me personally. I realized this while reflecting upon it in my own therapy session.

Some examples may include yelling once being pushed to a certain point, saying things like, “Why are you acting this way? This is not okay.” If she was fully screaming and becoming physical, one of us may take her to her room and stay with her in it while she screams. I’ve gotten very emotional, cried in front of her. If I have ever yelled at her or behaved in a way I know is not okay, I always apologize, every time. She has also apologized to me as well, so I know she’s hopefully seeing the repair aspect.

My husband and I are so drained by her behavior. I’m praying I’ll be able to continue this steady “rise above” approach and hopefully in time see a shift back to my sweet little girl. I know she’s in there, but lately there are times I feel like I don’t know who she is anymore. Maybe that’s the evolution of children and parenting.

Thanks a million.

Okay, just to respond to this part first. “I know she’s in there.” Yes, she’s absolutely in there, that sweet little girl is in there. And that’s a really important idea to hold onto throughout all of this. In fact, because our perceptions are so important, our perceptions of behavior and our child and what they should be doing now and what’s going on with them and what’s our role in discipline, just responding to their behavior—all of those are dictated by our perceptions. And that’s why I focus so much on that. Because our perceptions of any situation decide how we feel.

I would never ask a parent or expect a parent or expect myself to change how I feel and just decide, I’m not going to feel upset by this behavior. I’m not going to feel worried about this behavior, or angry at my child for acting like this. That’s an impossible thing for us to do. But what we can do, and what I recommend strongly, is working on our perceptions of them. Which means knowing that that sweet child, with all the things we love about them, that sweet little baby that we gave birth to, is in there. That’s who they are. This other stuff that’s going on is a shell that they’re kind of trapped in or they keep falling into being trapped in. All these unpleasant things are not the actual essence of our child.

And something that can really help across the board—this is something that I did for myself that really helped me—is practicing in your mind. So it’s not just in the situation with your child, where it’s so easy to get triggered into taking things personally. But practicing in between times as much as we can, maybe when we’re just alone having a moment or having our own thoughts. I know we don’t get many of those as parents of young children! But when we do, seeing a little movie in our minds of this behavior that we’re seeing, this ugly, unattractive, maybe scary to us behavior, seeing beyond that to that child that’s in there. That vulnerable, immature, probably scared child behaving like this. Because, really, most of the behaviors that they have, the angry behaviors, they boil down to hurt, fear, or some other discomfort.

So practice seeing that behavior that we don’t like and then seeing beyond it. As if we had a special camera that could take away those layers and see what’s inside, like an X-ray. Seeing that sweet heart of our child, all those loving ways that they’ve been with us, that vulnerable child. That’s who’s there, that’s who we need to try to hold in the front of our minds. Because that’s the child that we can respond to in a manner that really does heal their behavior and end it, making our lives easier. That’s the child we can find our way to empathy with when they’re acting horribly. That’s the child that we want to bring forth, obviously. So focus on the person in there that you want to see. Practice that. That’s the key to, if we want to call it being unruffled, a calmer, happier, more capable parent, even when you’re going through these tough spots.

I also want to agree with this parent that she is in a season. This is a season. And there are a lot of reasons here for her child to be dysregulated and off. Switching to a different class where you suddenly don’t have that same routine and you’re not getting your nap. And the fact that this child naps on the weekends, wow, that’s a big sign that she still needs naps. Children need them especially when they’re in challenging situations like a preschool setting or a daycare setting. That drains even more of their energy than being at home on the weekend. So if she’s sleeping on Saturdays and Sundays, imagine how much she actually still needs that sleep during the week.

But I’m not suggesting that this parent change the school situation, just that she understand this incredible tiredness that her child is coming home with. That will help this parent expect what she’s getting, which is an intense child who’s totally exhausted. It’s not going to be a pretty sight, it’s not going to be great behavior. She can barely function.

Therefore, our response is to just try to get her from point A to point B, allow her to explode all the way, and not take it personally, not be offended by it. Not feel like there’s something wrong that we’re doing here or that there’s something bad about our child that is going to show up. As this parent said, “I’m terrified of what she’ll be like in another five to 10 years with this type of anger if it’s already surfacing at four to five years old.” Well, there will be less of it when she’s older because she won’t need the same kind of sleep that she needs at this age. She’ll be a little better able to self-regulate. Especially if her parent keeps in this direction she’s going, which is seeing that little girl that’s inside, still there, totally exhausted, can barely function, and needs her parent to understand that and just try to help get her through as she slowly, gradually adjusts to this sleep schedule.

And it sounds like this family has two intense daughters, so that makes it doubly hard, right? But that is the way that children this age show their tiredness. They blow up, they explode, they say unkind things. And it can seem like, as this parent said, “She seems like she’s very intentionally trying to be hurtful.” So that’s where we are mistaking dysregulation and exhaustion for intentional mean behavior. It may come off like that, but that’s not the intention. The intention isn’t really to hurt others, it’s to share her own discomfort. And maybe she has felt judged for her behavior. That would be normal for us to do, right, as parents? So that just creates more of the sense of, I’m alone, it hurts, it’s scary. I’m being annoying. She’s been paying more attention to my younger sister. My mother’s annoyed with me. But I’m not being annoying because I want to or I want to hurt her. I’m being annoying because I’m overwhelmed.

And this parent is worried. “I’m so terrified I’m parenting the wrong way. I hope I’m not letting too much go.” I don’t think she’s letting too much go, but I know it feels like that when her perceptions are still the way it’s easy to see for us as parents, which is reasonably. Why is she acting like this? She’s intentionally trying to be hurtful. She’s treating her sister this way. She shouldn’t get away with it. She thinks it’s okay to talk to people this way. In truth, she doesn’t believe it’s okay to do any of these things. She needs us to help her stop, which isn’t usually telling her to stop. It’s usually letting it go, commenting on it a little bit like, “Wow, those are hurtful words you’re saying. You’re really upset. Seems like you didn’t want your sister to do that.” And acknowledging separately the sister’s feelings: “She’s saying hurtful things to you, you don’t like that. Yeah.” So we could acknowledge that they’re hurtful words, but not trying to correct impulsive behavior. Because what that does is it tends to put a wedge between us and make it harder. Harder for our child, therefore more of the behavior, and harder for us to connect with them. It creates that distance.

And the interesting thing, both of these notes from parents have exhausted daughters. Exhausted. And I just remember—I mean it seemed like it only just changed a few years ago, and my children are all adults now—that this tiredness thing, it gets away from us so easily. Because children are just so much more prone to exhaustion and dysregulation from that, to the point where they cannot function. I remember about a year ago, I got an interesting note from a parent. I don’t think I was able to respond, but she was saying how appalled she was that it was her daughter’s birthday and I think her daughter was five or six. And they’d had this amazing party, it had all gone really, really well, with all her friends and neighbors. And then the next day she thought, Wow, I’m going to give my kids a treat and take her and her brother over to their favorite place, which was kind of a parkour setting, I think, as I remember. And this parent couldn’t believe it, that they behaved appallingly. And I can’t remember the details, but they were rude to her, they were mean to her. And here she was bending over backwards after she’d thrown this birthday party. Now she’s giving them this other incredible treat. She was so offended by their behavior.

Understandably, right? Because when we’re on the inside, it’s really hard to see. But from my outside view I could say, Well, that makes sense. Because how exhausting was it for these children, especially the child whose birthday it was, to have a birthday party that went really, really well. So it’s not only negatives, like hard changes that kids make, that tire them out. It’s these really positive experiences of excitement, of pleasure, stimulation. They’re down for several days after that usually. And that’s important to know as we’re coming into the holidays. It’s a time for exhaustion and it will get away from us if we don’t keep reminding ourselves of how different children are in this way and their needs, how much more sensitive they are.

So yes, I believe this parent that they have an extremely loving home, that they’re patient most of the time. But the other thing she said is that she does blow up sometimes. And that’s nothing to feel ashamed of, or that we’re doing something wrong. It happens. The thing about it, though, is that children will, if they sense that that’s there, they can keep unconsciously kind of pressing us towards it. Because they can sense something building in us that’s uncomfortable, that’s making them feel uncomfortable and kind of anxious. And oftentimes children with this type of temperament, they can’t help but push us beyond our limit because they know that’s possible. I don’t know, it’s a hard one to explain, but it’s a very common thing that children do.

So what that means is that if we have exploded, then our child will be venting that with their own explosions. Maybe a couple days later, but they absorb it and then they discharge it. So in a sense, every time that we lose it, we’re kind of adding more times that our child’s going to be screaming as well. That’s just something to know. That’s us being reasonable about ourselves and the situation, even though it’s an unreasonable situation from our child’s point of view. They are not in a place of reason. But we can be and we can objectively say to ourselves, Okay, well, I scream sometimes so it makes sense that they’re reflecting that back. They’re getting that out of their bodies. That’s a good thing.

So, getting to this parent’s question: “Is there a way to approach and handle this aside from only telling her it’s not okay to talk to people in that way?” The way to approach is working on practicing our perception, seeing that child inside. And when she does say things, we don’t want to ignore it, that’s not natural, right? But we want to respond to it from a place of understanding that it’s her lashing out, sharing her snarls and her hurts with the people she’s safest with.

Another interesting thing is, in both cases, the children are doing great at school, no problems there. So this is the dynamic that we want. It should relieve us even more that this is okay, this is a season, this will pass. I can help it pass through my perceptions and my perceptions will guide my response. As an example: Yikes, alright, I’m picking her up from school. It could be very rough. There’ll be lots of explosions. That’s okay, I can handle this. I’m not going to take any of it personally because I’m expecting it. She’s going through something. And this will pass, this will get better. It’s not a bad sign about me, my parenting, or about my child and their future.

Not only can we get through this, but we can get through this with a closer connection instead of getting through this and creating more distance between us. And that’s what we all want, right? That closer connection. That’s very, very possible. Even if we make a bunch of errors and yell and do all of that, we can still end up in that place of closer connection if we keep practicing our perceptions. Which means letting go of the fear. Everything’s going to be fine with this family. I believe her that they have this incredibly loving home.

And she says, “Maybe my expectations for their behavior are too high.” It’s not necessarily even too high, but it’s different. We can’t expect reasonable behavior from children dealing with these dysregulating things like development, siblings, changes at school, and, number one, tiredness.

She says, “Lately I’ve been trying to focus on remaining calm, making light of things, but I’m shocked at the level she’s taking things.” So, focusing on remaining calm and making light of things. If that’s what our focus is, we’re not addressing ourselves from the inside out. That’s what we do when we practice the perception and then we actually feel calmer about this behavior, expecting it. For this child, in this situation, this makes sense. So I can remain calm. I’m seeing through to that child inside. I know the rest of this is just shell and things that are happening on the surface. That’s not her. And making light of things. Yes, I can treat things lightly, but honestly, like her words to me or her behaviors or the screaming, if I am expecting this. And maybe my partner and I talk about it, Oh, okay, we got to go pick her up. Are you ready? Okay, we can do this. We high-five and yeah, now we can approach it lightly. And from there we won’t feel like we’re trying to be something. We’ll just be being honest.

That’s what this work is about. Because this parents says, “I’m shocked at the level she’s taking things.” But that’s the thing, she’s not taking things to this level, her shell person is doing that. It’s just all blast on the outside, it’s not deep, intense feelings on the inside. If this were an adult acting this way, yes, maybe this would be an indication of intense anger. But with children at these ages, everything feels more intense and then the situation and the tiredness only heightens it. So when she says angry words, when she says, “meanest mama, stupid,” I wouldn’t say, “It’s not okay to talk to people that way.” I would say, “Ouch. Oh, you don’t love me right now. That hurts. I still love you and I want to know more about that, even. How you’re just not liking me right now.” It’s safe. And then with the screaming, just nod your head. Yeah, wow, whew. Yeah, that’s strong stuff. You’re not making fun of it. We’re not trying to make light of it, but we’re also not just ignoring it like it’s not there. Because then children do feel alone in that way, that they’re in this shell and they can’t be reached and we’re not going to try. So, respond. But just from that place of getting it.

And the names, she’s not trying to hurt. She’s doing this really immature way of sharing her hurt that we can see through. It’s kind of sad and silly, right? And this parent’s saying she and her husband are so drained by the behavior because they’re taking it personally. They’re taking it literally. They’re seeing it as worrisome. It’s that concern and that worry that’s going to drain us, and we don’t want that to happen because we need every bit of energy we have as parents. Perception will prevent us from taking things in in a way that drains us.

Here’s another question:

I write in desperation and heartbreak. I’m lucky enough to be the mother of three perfect children, a four-and-a-half-year-old, a two-year-old, and a nine-month-old. Unsurprisingly, it is the oldest that I’m writing about.

She’s a wonderfully funny and intelligent little girl, but her behavior is becoming hard to bear. Overall, she still seems to be struggling a lot emotionally with the transitions she’s had to face, which manifests as abject screaming and rage coupled with sadness.

After school pickup, the pattern of behavior is the same. As soon as we have left and the tiniest thing is not right, the screaming and shouting begins. Everything is catastrophic. This continues at home and during bedtime. The shouting is either indiscriminate or directed at me or her little sister. It is so loud sometimes that the baby becomes distressed and starts crying and I have to move her out of the room. Mornings are also particularly bad, screaming-wise.

On paper, the problems are obvious. She has two siblings in two years, started school, and we have just moved house. She clearly has a lot of anger and frustration with us she still has to process. But the main reason I’m contacting you is that there has not been any improvement in the last two years, despite all of our efforts. It is now becoming mentally debilitating to be screamed at every day, and I have started to lose my patience. She has also started to say worrying things like, “I’m not going to be your children anymore” through her tears.

This morning, for example, she climbed into her carseat and there was something on her seat, so she screamed as loud as possible. Both myself and my husband shouted and told her to wait and ask for help. “There’s no need for screaming!” I shouted. (This irony is not lost on me.) “Can you wait and ask Daddy for help? Have you ever known Daddy not to help you?” I continued. She stopped immediately and shook her head and then waited for my husband to sort out her carseat. We then proceeded to school in silence and we didn’t say goodbye. She will carry this with her all day now, shouted at by mommy and daddy and no goodbye kiss. Not great prep for a four-year-old to navigate the rest of her day, whatever it may throw at her, without us by her side for reassurance and guidance. I cried all the way home and while feeding our baby. I’m failing as a person and as a mother.

And as I’ve said, the main sticking point is that there’s been no improvement. I’ve read every book and podcast by you and Tina Payne Bryson, in addition to others, such as Siblings Without Rivalry. We have patiently implemented these strategies, such as allowing and acknowledging the feelings, including accepting her when she says that she wants her sister to go away and that she doesn’t like her. We have worked a lot on our authenticity in this area. We reinforce the idea that it’s okay to cry and be angry. We draw the line at screaming full-force in either of her siblings’ faces. In these situations, we move her away and, when she’s calmer, acknowledge her feelings, but explain it’s not okay to be that loud so close to the others. We carve out one-on-one time whenever possible, read stories, and tuck her in every night. Cuddle, tell her how much we love her all the time. As we have lost our patience more frequently, we do always make a point of apologizing unreservedly and repairing.

I’m at a loss as to what to do next. This situation is untenable for everyone and I now worry about our younger children living with frequent screaming. She frequently shouts and says unkind things to her sister, and as much as I try not to see her as a victim, it is hard not to worry about the effect it has on her emerging confidence.

It is also important to note at this point that I think she’s often crippled with tiredness. This has been an ongoing theme for a long time and we’ve tried to tackle it with consistent early bedtimes, insisting on lunchtime sleeps at weekends, quiet times, screen time limited, and reducing extracurricular activities, but it remains a factor. I’m currently on maternity leave and so I’m around for her as much as possible when she’s not at school. My husband is incredibly loving and supportive to all of us and diligently adopts the various strategies suggested by yourself and other experts you have suggested. He also works from home a lot, so is there to help out when needed, including all bedtimes.

We would be so grateful for your take on all of this. I sometimes feel that in our quest for healthy mental wellbeing and emotional intelligence, our desire to make expression of emotions okay has gone too far and she has missed the opportunity to start to learn to control her behavior. If you have any time at all, please would you help us to walk the fine line between emotional expression and age-appropriate self-control?

Okay, so I also reached out to this parent to ask for some examples and here’s what she shared:

Thank you for replying. We’ve been thinking a lot about the most helpful examples to explain. Like I’ve said, tiredness plays a huge part in her behavior and always has, which probably explains why the screaming often, but not exclusively, occurs at the beginning and end of the day. But I don’t believe it is the whole story, and she clearly has things she needs to process.

Example one: On the way home from school in the car the other day, my oldest was holding a toy which she dropped on the floor and therefore couldn’t reach from her carseat. All three children were in the back and she immediately started screaming and then kicked the back of the seats full-force. As we were on a quiet road, I stopped the car briefly, turned around, and said, “Oh, you dropped something. It’s annoying when that happens. We’ll look for it when we get out of the car.” As always, trying to keep my tone even and genuine. She stopped screaming but continued to cry and whine until we were home.

It usually helps her mood after she has had an outburst, especially if I sit there and nod and offer her a cuddle, like she does have things to release. However, the frequency and ferociousness of the outbursts makes me think we need to help her deal with her feelings in a more refined way.

A slightly different reaction she may have is shouting threats, such as when the other night she asked me to help her with a game she was playing, putting pieces into the right holes. I put one piece into the wrong place and this frustrated her endlessly. “Mommy, I’m not your best friend anymore and I’m sending you to jail!” she screamed. This is a frequent threat leveled at myself and her little sister if something is not right. I let this one go and went back to whatever I was doing. She continued her game on her own.

This parent talked about their play together:

She’s always very dominant with her sister as well. When they do play together, I hear, “Do this, do that. No, no, no, not like that. Give me that thing. Go over here,” etc. And her sister will diligently follow or get bored and wander off. Again, I don’t know when to step in. I fear if she gets used to playing this way, her peers will not be as forgiving as her sister.

And then she gives one more example:

The following example demonstrates a slightly different, less favorable approach I have used more and more in the last couple of weeks, probably due to feeling more worn down. In the car on the way home from school yesterday, she again dropped something, which immediately elicited a screaming response. I said in an even tone, “I don’t want to hear any more screaming now.” She did adjust her volume somewhat and continued to moan in a more measured way. On arriving home, she entered the house first and then immediately ran back screaming because she couldn’t find something. While taking my shoes off, I again said, not in an angry voice, but probably stern, “What have I said about screaming? Tell me what you want in your normal voice.” She then did talk normally, and then I then helped her.

A few minutes later in the kitchen, she seemed happily walking around in a circle, singing a tune and playing with a toy. I couldn’t help but wonder on observing her that at this point she didn’t seem too bothered that instead of always acknowledging her frustration, I had simply directed her to a better behavior. She didn’t seem emotionally stifled, just a normal child playing while waiting for dinner.

I’ve also asked my husband to separately give his take on things, and this is his reply: Often when my daughter gets home after school, she can appear very tired. When in the bath she can scream and shout if her sister takes something she is holding or wants to play with. I try not to always take the item away from her sister and return it, but instead acknowledge that it can be frustrating when you’re playing with something and it goes. When time allows, I take her out of the bath and sit and give her a cuddle and try to ask her how she feels. “Were you upset because your sister took your toy? I understand. That can be frustrating.” After a moment, she’s calm. But often the bathtime/bedtime routine for three kids continues in a busy manner, not allowing for any time of prolonged calm.

And then another example, he says:

I often get up and make the kids breakfast, and our oldest can be very demanding and wanting to make breakfast, to the point of if I have gotten a bowl out already, she can complain and, in rare occasions, shout/scream because she wanted to do it. I allow her to make the breakfast when I can and guide her. But if she’s at the point of being too upset to actually complete the activity, I step in and gently but assertively take over while saying something to the effect of, “I can see you’re telling me you’re tired and need some help.” Sometimes this is fine and she sits in her chair and carries on with her breakfast. But other times it may just make her more upset because she didn’t get to complete the activity.

And this parent says at the end:

We have not had any negative reports of behavior from her previous nursery or her new school. And we have inquired often.

Right. So, as you can maybe hear in this note, there’s a lot of similarities to the other situation, but these parents, they seem to have been working at this a lot longer and trying to do the right thing. Which they are doing. Again, though, the answer here, well, it’s twofold.

The answer is in our perceptions, which means understanding the why. That’s part of our perceptions. And it sounds like these parents are not quite a hundred percent there, and I want to encourage them, just as with this other family, to even practice this a bit more and believe in this a bit more. For example, when this parent says, “She comes out of school okay, gets in the car, waits for something to not be right, and then screams.” So it’s just this really subtle little wrinkle in the way this parent is seeing, this idea that her daughter is consciously waiting for something to go wrong. This parent says the screaming eclipses things. Well, it’s this tiredness that’s eclipsing everything. And I would try to understand that tiredness is really the trigger for these other things.

As this parent says, there’s been all these transitions—a new home, two siblings in two years. This is big stuff. So the why is pretty understandable. Tiredness, which makes everything harder. Transitions, which are very, very challenging for young children and often at the source of their dysregulated behavior. Sibling issues, one of the hardest transitions for children to face and very hard for these parents as well, juggling the three children, the new baby. So it’s understandable that they don’t have a lot of bandwidth to try to empathize with their daughter and try, as they say, so hard to be even in their tone and to be authentic. What I want to encourage is they consider this work on perceptions instead of working on their tone and being authentic. Because this is the way to be authentic and have the tone. Maybe not all of the time for sure, especially when you’ve got three little ones and a new baby. But more often than not—and children don’t need it to be all the time, they just need it to be a little more than half the time for them to start to be calmer and know that we are on their side.

The way for them to feel that is for us to be on their side because we’re seeing past this shell, this screaming person that just goes off at the drop of a hat, after school especially and in the morning. Sounds like she’s not a morning person, I can relate to that. Tired in the morning, tired after school, new baby, another sibling that’s two that she probably still feels a lot of rivalry with. It’s all par for the course. And it’s very, very challenging for us to keep holding open that perception of the child behind the shell, the hurting that causes that, the hurting that causes that screaming, the feeling that this child has that she’s a minefield, just so easily touched off. It’s tough, right?

And I find it so interesting, the difference this parent felt with the third example that she gave. I believe the reason that seemed to be more effective and help her child to move through it was that this parent was actually authentic then. Which I’m wondering if she really wasn’t—again, this is not something I can know just from reading these thoughts the parent shared with me—but I have the sense that in these previous examples. Well, there’s the one where the parents were both shouting. And so that goes back to that other message I was giving to the previous parent. That just adds more to what our child has to discharge from us. And again, it’s okay. We forgive ourselves and we just know, Okay, we’ve added a few more screams because we’ve lost it today. Nothing wrong with us for doing that, but that’s going to be the result. So okay, now we understand this is going to happen and we can expect it.

But this way that this parent describes responding to her daughter, she says her daughter was holding a toy that she dropped on the floor and therefore couldn’t reach from her carseat. And that “all three children were in the back and she immediately started screaming and then kicked the back of the seats full-force. As we were on a quiet road, I stopped the car briefly, turned around, and said, ‘Oh, you dropped something. It’s annoying when that happens. We’ll look for it when we can get out of the car.’ As always, trying to keep my tone even and genuine.” So besides this being a lot of work for the parent to try to keep her tone a certain way, I would consider that, from her child’s point of view, there’s a real distancing effect of her parent not saying, “Ouch, that hurts when you kick me like that. Don’t do that. And you want your toy. I get that.” Something that’s, I don’t know the way this parent talks or relates to her, but that sounds real, that sounds authentic.

And we’ll say those things when we really are in that frame of mind, with our perceptions in order, or when we’ve practiced them. That’s the kind of thing that we might say, because we’re not trying to say the right words, we’re not trying to get the right tone. And that’s what my whole podcast is about trying to help parents with: getting to be authentically unruffled with your child, getting to be your authentic self, the freedom of that, the comfort in that. And seeing how that works. When we’re not threatened by her kicking the back of our seat, but we’re annoyed by it. Ouch. That we don’t like that. We understand why you’re doing this, but we’re not going to act as if it didn’t happen.

So when this parent says that she thought it almost worked better when she said, “I don’t want to hear any more screaming now. Tell me what you want in your normal voice, please.” It feels to me, putting myself in that child’s shoes, that now she’s feeling responded to by her parent saying what she actually feels. And that is comforting for a child. And as children get beyond two and three and they’ve absorbed all kinds of language around feelings at that point that we’ve offered each time, asking them questions, “Are you feeling frustrated?” So we’re not assuming, but we’re asking and we’re bringing those words up. We don’t need to keep saying a lot of words to an older child. If we’re really authentically in that relationship with them, we can say, “Oh, oh no, it fell. Oh, you hate when that happens.” We don’t have to go through a whole explanation about what’s going on.

I’m not saying this parent is doing this, but maybe they’re saying more words than they need to. And they’re saying it from a place of trying so hard to do the right thing, which I really appreciate and will take these parents far because that intention is really all that matters to being the best kind of parent. And these parents are both very intentional in this work that they’re doing. I just want to help try to make it easier for them and clearer for them.

The bossy behavior with her sister totally makes sense. And it’s fine, as long as she’s not hurting her sister. Children learn to stick up for themselves or move away, like this two-year-old is doing. And that’s more helpful to them than a parent defending them or getting involved in it. Because what the parent getting involved in it does is tell that younger child, I don’t think you can handle this situation with your sibling. Now, if they’re getting verbally abused or physically abused, obviously we would stop it at that point. Say, “Oh, I’ve got to stop you there. You could say that to me, I get why you need to say those things sometimes. But not to your sister.” But still knowing that it’s going to happen. And we’ve made it clear to the younger sister and the older one that that’s not acceptable and we don’t believe it’s true.

The description of the dad’s responses, it sounds like—and I don’t know, again, I could be imagining this, but I sense that he’s a little more comfortable with the behavior than the mom is. Which makes sense, she’s dealing with three children all day. But that’s where we want to get to. We see through this, we see beyond this. No, we’re not going to jump to get you something when you scream at us. That’s where we have our boundaries. We’re taking care of ourselves in this relationship. But we know that, again, this is a season and this will pass. And what we want to do is keep being connected to each other.

Just to go over some of the tips I want to give both of these parents:

Perceptions. Practice those movies in your mind. Seeing beyond, seeing the child inside the shell, the shell behavior.

The why. Why the shell? In both these cases, there are a lot of reasons. And even if you can’t figure out the reason with your child, know that there is a reason and the reason is not that you’re a terrible parent, that you’re doing something wrong, or that they are a doomed child in some way. And if you’re overwhelmed and you feel like you really need more assistance, talk to a professional, in your area ideally. Someone that can come and be with you in person and help you that way.

Tiredness. Boom, the main reason that children go off and behave in ways that we don’t want them to. Too tired. We often don’t see it coming. These are all under the heading of why. Which our perceptions will help us to focus on and react from. React from their why so that we can empathize.

Transitions. Siblings, getting up in the morning, coming home from school, bathtime, all of those are transitions. And the evening transitions, the after-school transitions tend to be the hardest. That’s why I did a podcast called End of the Day Crazies with Kids. It happens, even without any other element happening in a child’s life.

And then I would say, parents getting touched off. That’s true in both of these situations. Parents getting touched off to worry, to get offended. And it can happen from our own childhood experiences, very common. It also happens because we are more reasonable people as adults, and we are less tired people as adults usually. Well, maybe the one with three kids is more tired than most of us, but compared to a child, we are less sensitive around those things and we have a whole lot more self control. But then when we do get touched off, that adds more discomfort to our child and therefore we’re going to see more of the uncomfortable behavior. That tends to be the cycle that we get caught up in with children when things are going in the way that these parents say that they’re going. We can stop this cycle by, even just some of the time, working on our perceptions and calming ourselves that way. Putting these behaviors in their place in our minds and hearts, seeing them for what they are: immature, overwhelmed expressions of hurt. Yeah, they can look really angry, but they usually boil down to fear and hurt and tiredness. And none of these are things that we can’t handle, if we believe in ourselves.

I believe in you, and we can do this.

Please check out some of the other podcasts on my website, janetlansbury.com. They’re all indexed by subject and category, so you should be able to find whatever topic you might be interested in. And my books, No Bad Kids: Toddler Discipline Without Shame, and Elevating Child Care: A Guide to Respectful Parenting, you can get them in paperback at Amazon and in ebook at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and apple.com.

The post Angry Outbursts, Screaming, and Hurtful Words appeared first on Janet Lansbury.

Learn more about Janet’s “No Bad Kids Master Course” at: NoBadKidsCourse.com.

Transcript of “My Toddler Won’t Separate or Warm Up to Anyone Else”

Hi, this is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled.

Today I’m going to be responding to a question from a parent who says that her two-and-a-half-year-old has always had separation anxiety and can’t get comfortable with grandparents, even the child’s father. This little girl gets upset whenever her mother isn’t there to care for her and seems especially anxious around family members that try to engage her or touch her. This parent’s wondering if there’s anything she can do to help her child become more comfortable in these situations and take some of the pressure off this parent, who feels like she’s the only one her daughter will be contented with.

Okay, so here’s the question I received:

Hi, Janet-

Thank you for all the work you do. I have a question about my daughter’s separation anxiety from me (mom) that has seemed to be present since birth.

I’ve always tried to be respectful of her communication. So as an infant, when she showed distress at being held by other family members, I always took her back or, if I had to leave the room, I would let her play on the floor instead of forcing her to be held by somebody else. My mom said that when she seemed upset, I should say, “It’s okay, it’s just grandma.” But I wanted to respect that she didn’t want that physical contact with someone, as we would with an older child who didn’t want to give a hug to a family member. When she was six weeks and I had to go to my postpartum appointment, I left her with my husband and he said that she screamed bloody murder almost the entire time until I returned.

Now, at two-and-a-half, she still has barely ever been left with anyone but me—only for my medical or dental appointments—and she still does not like to be picked up by other family members. She’s very independent when we are at home or in familiar public places like the library, but at family members’ houses if I go to the bathroom she starts crying anxiously for me, even if she was playing independently up until that point. Unlike other children in the family or whom I have worked with, she is never soothed or comforted by other family members, even her dad, and will only accept comforting from me. If she is already happy and comfortable and I am around, that is the only time she can enjoy other adults. And they have to work really hard to be fun or silly or she wants nothing to do with them. She’s definitely more anxious around the family members who have been known to try to pick her up, such as grandma, than the ones who have always given her space.

I guess I’m wondering if I should have allowed her to get used to being held by others when she was an infant. Was she too young for me to employ the rule of not forcing a child to hug anyone she doesn’t want to? But I’ve never seen another baby who is so bothered by being held by others, so I also wonder if it is just her inborn personality.

Thank you.

Okay. While this in its entirety is a very specific issue this parent is having, it’s common for children to be slower to warm up to other people besides their primary caregiver. And that makes sense, right? They’re used to this person, they’re comfortable with this person, and getting comfortable with somebody else outside of this first person they’ve bonded with or are bonding with requires a little stretch for them. It’s a little uncomfortable. And it’s true what this parent says, that some children are more sensitive to this than others and it’s harder for them. They don’t want the touch and smell of that other person or the way that person touches or holds them. It’s unfamiliar.

And I love that this parent was considering that from her child’s birth, it sounds like. She says to me, “I’ve always tried to be respectful of her communication. So as an infant, when she showed distress at being held by other family members, I always took her back.” Because this parent believes that, she believes the truth, which is that a baby deserves the same respect as an older child.

And now her child is two-and-a-half and is still struggling with this. Some of what the issue is is really not something to be concerned about. The fact that her child doesn’t want to be held by people other than her mother, that’s very understandable. But the fact that she can’t be comfortable when her mother leaves the room and she feels, I don’t know if it’s unsafe or that she’s unsure of what other people might do, but the parent can’t get away at all and is kind of trapped. That’s rough, right? When we feel like we can’t get away for a minute without our child expressing displeasure.

And a lot of parents come to me with that issue, saying their child won’t separate, clings to them, what can they do? And it’s really only one thing that I recommend that it sounds like this parent might not be doing, and it’s something that most of us in this situation don’t consider. We miss it, and actually it’s something that we miss in a lot of areas with our children because it’s kind of a brave thing to do. It’s not something that is practiced in our society and it requires this leap of faith.

If you listen here, you’ve heard me talk about this before: really welcoming those feelings. Really welcoming a child to share that discomfort. And that’s kind of the step beyond the wonderful respect that this parent is showing her child, respecting her wishes, not wanting to put her in situations where she shows any discomfort. This is a step even further that’s even more respectful, because what it is is seeing and hearing and welcoming a child to share. That’s the opposite of what is commonly done, which is what this parent says that her mother does, which is, “It’s okay, it’s just grandma.” That’s invalidating, right? Taking our child away or moving them away from that person is thoughtful, and that’s respecting what we are assuming is their wish right then. But the place that I recommend that goes even further is allowing our child to be in that space with their feelings while they have our full support and that we’re acknowledging them.

And this is also a difference that I talk about a lot on this podcast, which is the really important difference between acknowledging and accommodating. When we accommodate, when we say, Oops, you’re crying or you’re showing displeasure with this person, so I’m going to move you away, that is accommodating. And there’s nothing wrong with that, but accommodating tends to keep our child stuck in the discomfort because what it does is it affirms to our child that we see their discomfort as very valid and something that we need to fix, instead of valid and something that they need to express to us. That’s the difference. Both are saying it’s valid, but one is wanting to hear and know about discomfort.

Because this is a precious thing that our child is sharing with us, especially as an infant. I’m telling you something, and because I don’t have the words, this is the way I’m telling you that I’m feeling something here. This is new, this is different. I don’t know this person. I wouldn’t give my child over to someone and then try to acknowledge the feelings my child has while they’re in that person’s arms. I would not take the step of letting this person hold the baby until I had the sense that the baby was saying it was okay. And I’m going to talk about that whole process, but first, I just want to make this overall point that I believe that if this parent started to welcome all these feelings their child is sharing with her as a toddler now, and not be afraid of them and not let them stop her in her tracks or prevent her from going to do the things she needs to do to separate.

And ideally if the person that’s with the child when mom separates, if this is dad or grandma or somebody else if mom’s going to the bathroom, ideally these people will also welcome the feelings. But again, it’s a counterintuitive thing. I wouldn’t expect that people will be able to do that, but that would be the ideal. That dad could say, “Oh gosh, you want your mom so bad. You don’t want me here with you right now. You want to be with mom, right? She’s the one that usually gives you that bath, she’s the one that usually” whatever it is.

To be able to be in that place with our child, unintimidated by the sharing, in fact wanting the sharing—it’s such an opportunity for bonding. I’ve been in this situation with my own children, with other people’s children. That will level you up each time in your closeness if you can be brave and welcome a child to share. This is true with a preschool teacher or a kindergarten teacher or the new caregiver or the old caregiver on a time when the child is just feeling vulnerable and didn’t want the parent to leave that day. The grandparents, the aunts, the uncles, the friends. I’ve seen the bonding effect that bravely welcoming a child’s feelings has. Really welcoming them, not just saying words, “It’s okay to be sad,” but Yeah, I feel you. It’s amazing what this does, but it’s a scary one and it’s still scary for me after all these years. So getting over that hump is very scary.

And you have to believe in it. I mean, maybe what I’m saying here sounds ridiculous and you don’t believe in it and you don’t agree with it. That’s okay, too. This is what I recommend and I know that it works and it helps and it’s what our children need to pass through these different things that they’re going through.

And when this parent says that when her child is around family members, they have to really do a song and dance and a show to be fun or silly to get her attention, that’s not really fair to those adults. I mean, it’s fine that they want to do that, but that’s a lot of work that we don’t need to do. We can be our genuine self with children if we allow them to go through all the feelings that they have about us.

When I have a new child in my class, people coming to the door, they’re holding their baby, and the baby will look at me. And the younger a child is especially, the more they just look at you so openly, right? They’re looking straight into you, and you can kind of read their feelings of, Who are you? Can I trust you? And I always acknowledge that. I’ll say hello to whatever the child’s name is, “Yeah, you don’t know me, you’ve never seen me before, and now you’re coming into this room with me. Who is this lady, right?” I’ll reflect back that vibe that I’m getting from the child and help them to know that it’s really okay with me and it’s valid for them to feel all those things about a new situation and a new person. And I want to encourage that sensitivity in them. That’s why young children are such great learners, because they are so open and sensitive and that’s a good thing. So I want to let them know, “Yes, I’m sure you’re feeling a lot of things. Who’s this lady? Yeah, you’re looking at my hair. Yeah, I have different hair than your mom does.” Whatever it is, I want you to share it with me.

And I’ll do this if I’m going into somebody’s house. I mean, that’s even a more intimate situation that now I’m in your house and I’m sitting with your parent. You don’t know me. Who is this lady talking to your mom? Setting boundaries with you sometimes, if that’s what I’m modeling in that consultation. Who is this person? I don’t expect you to be comfortable with me. I’m brand new to you.

So with this parent, with the family members and the grandparents, I would do this from the very beginning the next time you’re all together. As soon as your child is expressing something about somebody there, “You’re looking at grandma. Are you wondering if she’s going to want to hug you today? Yeah. Well, grandma’s not going to hug you unless you want it, but yeah, I see the way you’re looking at her.” And of course, if grandma could do this too, that would be incredible, but it’s okay, we can still help bridge that for our child. And also we’re kind of modeling for the other adults there that this person has a perspective that’s valid. And the more we allow it, the easier it’ll be for her to pass through it and feel more trust and feel more comfortable with us. That’s how the process looks.

So then I wouldn’t try to entertain her or get her attention. I would encourage everybody to trust that they’re enough. And if you really allow her to be herself and see her and acknowledge her, understand her as she is, where she is in this process, that will help her to want to come to you. And I’ve seen this happen so many times. If we do a big show, then in a way we’re kind of distracting our child from, it’s not a negative thing, but we’re distracting her from those feelings that she has. And we’re performing in a way that we should never need to have to perform with a child. We get to be ourselves in these relationships. That’s what the deepest kind of respect is. Respecting ourselves, respecting our child.

If I had to get up and go to the bathroom and my child may not be comfortable with these people, I’m not expecting her to run up and jump into their arms. I’m asking them not to approach her because I want them to trust that she will come to you if you allow her to be herself. Now I’m going to go to the bathroom, and now she’s upset and she’s screaming, “Oh, you don’t want me to go. You’re not sure about these people, right? Yeah, you’re used to me all the time. It’s hard for me to leave.” I’m saying that as I’m leaving. You can share with us. We want to know. We want to hear about it. I go to the bathroom, I come back, now maybe she’s yelling at me some more. “You didn’t want me to go. Yeah, you’re still sharing with me. You can tell me all those things.” And at her age, she may have some words she’s saying, so just reflect all of them. Nothing to fear here, nothing to fix. It’s freeing, but it’s scary at the same time. So that’s the key that I hope you’ll try.

And when this parent says, “she’s definitely more anxious around the family members who have been known to try to pick her up, such as grandma, than the ones who have always given her space,” you might even bring that out into the open, too. “I know grandma tried to pick you up before and you weren’t sure if you were ready, so now you’re not sure if she’s going to try that again. It’s okay. I talked to grandma and she’s going to wait because she knows that you will want to come be with her at some point when you’re ready.” Just something like that. No secrets here, no unsaid things, no things we’re afraid of, things we’ve got to fix, things we’re worried about. Putting it all out there. The more you do this with your children, the more freedom you’ll feel and the closer you’ll all feel.

It’s like the way sometimes when we can say something to a partner about something we’re unhappy about in the relationship, and the person accepts that or hears it. Maybe they don’t agree with it, but they hear it and they still accept you and seem to still like you and want to be with you. How much more do we love that person after? How much closer do we feel? A lot of us weren’t allowed to express anything remotely negative or not what people wanted to hear and still feel accepted. That’s why it’s so scary, I think that’s one of the reasons. So there’s a lot that this parent can do right now.

I also want to speak to her comment where she said, “I’m wondering if I should have allowed her to get used to being held by others when she was an infant. Was she too young for me to employ the rule of not forcing a child to hug anyone she doesn’t want to? But I’ve never seen another baby who is so bothered by being held by others, so I also wonder if it’s just her inborn personality.” So yes, I agree it is a sign of her inborn personality, that she is on the sensitive side. And I also agree that she shouldn’t have forced her to get used to being held by others when she was an infant. That’s not what this is about. “Was she too young for me to employ the rule of not forcing a child to hug anyone she doesn’t want to?” Absolutely not.

But interestingly, this idea of accepting all feelings that children have, it seems to be becoming almost a mainstream idea, the way there’s so much acceptance and talk about this idea of letting feelings be. And that was not the case five, 10 years ago. So that’s a wonderful thing, right? That we’re realizing that feelings need to flow, and that’s the key to everything: Our child’s behavior being understood and helping them to move through it. And improve their behavior, if we want to see it that way. For them to have emotional fluency, social-emotional intelligence. To feel close to us, to feel wholly accepted. This is wonderful progress that we’re all making. And maybe I’m imagining that it’s becoming mainstream because it’s very much around in my world, but even if it’s a little more in that direction, it’s wonderful.

The interesting thing, though, is that this idea, for most people it starts somewhere in the toddler years, this idea that children have feelings to express and need to express them. It’s still uncommon for people to consider that an infant has this need. And that’s what’s quite different about Magda Gerber’s approach. And one of the things that stuck out for me so strongly when I heard it from her was that even a baby has a right to cry. Now, if we don’t quite think of a baby as a full-fledged human being quite yet, that maybe we think of them as this more simplified state, then we will maybe only be able to imagine that allowing a baby to cry is abandoning them, letting them cry it out, not caring, forcing them to. Not something that we are intimately involved in supporting. So that’s an idea I would like to bring forward here.

Because this parent is certainly right in that she shouldn’t force the baby into someone else’s arms and try to force them to get used to it. But what the parent did, and what most people do is, she just thought, Uh-oh, she’s saying no, so I’m going to avoid this situation. Instead of hearing all the in-between. What’s in between accommodating our baby in the situation and forcing them to be in an uncomfortable situation or leaving them to have uncomfortable feelings or distress. Never ever, ever do we need to do that. The truly respectful, loving place is in between, where we’re curious about what our baby is sharing, and we’re not assuming that we have to fix this, that allowing it is some kind of abandonment or not caring about what our child is feeling. It’s the exact opposite. It’s noticing the nuances of what they’re expressing. And babies cry to express a lot of nuance because they don’t have those words to say yet. Now, obviously, we don’t want the baby to get to a point of deep distress If we can help that.

Here’s the process that I recommend. So here I am, here’s grandma. I’m holding the baby. Grandma says, “I want to hold the baby,” or reaches out for the baby. Of course grandma wants to hold the baby, right? I stop. I maybe gently put my hand on grandma, or I somehow gently block and I turn to my baby in my arms. I make sure the baby can see grandma, and I say, “This is your grandma. She would like to hold you right now. What do you think about that?” And I hold my baby up a little closer towards grandma, and I check it out with my baby. I read her body language, I look in her eyes, I see if she’s showing comfort or trepidation. And if I see any kind of trepidation, I say, “It looks like you’re not sure yet. That’s okay. We can wait.” But then let’s say grandma’s reaching out and my baby starts to cry. “Oh, that’s not making you comfortable, right? This is a different person here. It’s your grandma. You’re going to get to know her very well, but you’re not ready for her to hold you right now.” Something like that.

And what this does is it takes us down a path of acknowledging instead of accommodating. So our child gets this message as early as possible that they’re allowed to have a process of getting comfortable with people. It’s not about you’re either comfortable or you’re not. It’s this in-between. Where are you now? What are you saying? What are you noticing? We can talk about all of it. And I know there’s some people that are going to think, well, how could you do this with an infant? Mostly, they’re people that haven’t ever tried it. So try it, if you want to. Because there is some truth in what this parent’s saying about if she could have allowed her child to start getting used to people earlier. She could have, and that’s the way. Through acknowledging, through being open to and bravely willing to accept and put words to what our child is feeling.

And if we don’t know, we say, “I don’t know. I’m not sure if you’re ready. Hmm.” Maybe grandma reaches out, “Let’s see. Let’s see how this goes.” And then the baby starts crying, “Oh no, it seems like you’re not ready yet. You don’t want grandma to hold you.” And then even with grandma holding her right there, I’m still there in close contact with her, letting her know that if she looks at me with those scared eyes, yes, I’m going to take her back. But it’s possible that she just wants to express, This is so new. This is all brand new. Who is this person? They hold me differently than mom does. Consider that there’s a lot more to what our children feel from the time they’re born than extreme things. Total distress, I can’t handle this!, and Okay, I’m fine with it. When we simplify babies that way, we can both get stuck in these kind of patterns that may have been created here, this very loving way of accommodating. It’s easier to start considering welcoming a child’s feelings as early as possible. And it’s helpful for us too to know that, Oh, there’s nuances here. Every cry isn’t an emergency that I have to fix.

And when I’m caring for my child’s specific needs, they’re crying because they’re hungry or tired, even then we’re of course filling the need, but we’re also acknowledging, “My, you’re in a very big hurry. You want to eat right now while I’m getting my pillow, while I’m getting comfortable. Yeah, it’s so hard to wait sometimes when you’re hungry. I’m glad you’re telling me that. I always want to know what’s going on with you.” Those messages. Or, “Oh gosh, I think you may be getting very tired. We did a lot today.” Or, “This person’s brand new to you. You never saw him before. It seems like you’re saying no, you’re not quite ready for him to be this close right now. Thanks for letting us know.”

That kind of openness goes a very long way. I mean, it lasts all the way through our kids’ adulthood where they can tell us all the hard things, all the uncomfortable things, the things that are happening right now between us, even. It’s powerful because we’re taking care to want to know, instead of giving them that message subtly, lovingly, that we don’t think they can handle this situation at all, even in stages, so we’re going to protect them from it. That’s accommodating. Or telling them, Shh, don’t feel what you’re feeling. It’s okay. It’s just grandma. Don’t feel what you’re feeling. Don’t share what you’re sharing.

If any of this makes sense to you, try it, and please let me know how it goes. And for this parent with a two-and-a-half-year-old or any parent, a parent with a teenager, it’s never, ever too late to start bravely accepting the feelings. Never too late.

Please check out some of the other podcasts on my website, janetlansbury.com. They’re all indexed by subject and category, so you should be able to find whatever topic you might be interested in. And my books, No Bad Kids: Toddler Discipline Without Shame, and Elevating Child Care: A Guide to Respectful Parenting, you can get them in paperback at Amazon and in ebook at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and apple.com.

Thanks so much for listening. We can do this.

The post My Toddler Won’t Separate or Warm Up to Anyone Else appeared first on Janet Lansbury.

(Learn more about Janet’s “No Bad Kids Master Course” at: NoBadKidsCourse.com)

Transcript of “Our Strong-Willed Child Is Running the Show”

Hi, this is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled.

A parent reached out to me via email with concern about her child, who’s seven years old. And apparently it feels like he’s running the show, according to this parent. She describes him as strong-willed and she says that she and her husband are utterly frustrated and exhausted. Children with this type of temperament—and there’s a range, it’s not like you’re either strong-willed or you’re not—I have to say, I have a special fondness for these types of children. I have one, I’ve worked with many. So what do we do when our child seems to be taking over? Their behavior’s rude, disrespectful, out of control, and nothing we’re trying, no kind of response that we’re giving, seems to be making a difference. That’s what I’m going to be going over in this podcast.

Here’s the note from this parent:

Hello, Janet-

Thank you for your rich resources. I do cherish them and listen often, although we continue to struggle daily with our seven-year-old son.

He is extremely strong-willed. He has been difficult most waking hours on a daily basis since age three-and-a-half. He doesn’t listen, rebuttals everything we say or ask of him, talks back. Is extremely rude and disrespectful. He knows it all. He rarely takes care of himself—showering, eating, dressing, brushing teeth—and we have to give him constant, repeated reminders to do these things. He acts helpless. He rarely self-plays. He has no personal space awareness. He’s always around us and it’s difficult to get things done or have alone time when he’s awake. He’s constantly pushing our buttons and we have to repeat ourselves on boundaries. For example, making loud, weird noises when his sister is sleeping.

We value respectful parenting, but find ourselves going from one extreme to another on the parenting spectrum because we are so frustrated. Nothing works, nothing gets to him, nothing changes his behavior. Our house is total chaos every day. He is running the show.

On top of that, he’s starting to affect our two-and-a-half-year-old daughter’s behavior. She’s not listening and manipulates us. My son is always engaging her in play, controlling what she can and can’t do, telling her to say and do things that he knows we shouldn’t.

I should also mention he’s good for others. There are rare complaints from school.

We are utterly frustrated and exhausted. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you.

So, where to begin here? I want to say something that I really, really hope doesn’t get taken the wrong way because these are obviously very caring parents and they’re trying their hardest to be respectful. When our child is running the show, when they seem to have more power than anyone else in the house, that is something that can only happen if we allow it to. And please don’t take this as a criticism of anybody, because I’ve been there. It happens and it happens to the best of us. But I think it’s important to recognize that this is in our control. We can stop allowing this to be the case in our home. We can change this.

And there’s good reasons to do that. Not only, as this parent says, is she utterly frustrated, exhausted, she sees it happening with their younger child now. But for our child, this boy does not want to be lord of the house. It’s not a comfortable way for any child to be, no child wants this. But unfortunately he can’t be the one to shift this dynamic that’s gone on, it sounds like since he was at least three-and-a-half years old. He can’t do it. We have to do it.

I hope that doesn’t feel like criticism and instead feels like good news: that we do have the power to change this and get out from under this spell that our child has seemed to put our whole house under. And it’s actually simpler, although I know not easy, but it’s simpler to do than we might imagine. So I’m going to be talking all about that.

Let’s start with going over some of the reasons that we fall into this dynamic. It’s like we’re in this stuck place with our child. We’re stuck and our child’s stuck, and it keeps going back and forth like a feedback loop. It’s not working. Like I said, we can change this. We absolutely can.

One reason that it happens, and that may be part of this parent’s challenge, is that we do not have enough models around us of what a respectful approach to discipline or, I don’t know what people call it, conscious parenting, gentle parenting, I’m not sure how people define those things. But oftentimes what happens is that we were not raised that way. We were raised with more of an old-school, authoritarian, harsh, punitive upbringing. And we’re drawn to respectful parenting because we don’t like the result of that upbringing. We don’t like the way it made us feel about ourselves, the relationship that it’s made between us and our parents, maybe the relationship that we still have with them.

So we’re drawn to this different way. And with this different way, we’re learning that we want to try to understand behavior and not just scare children or punish children into behaving a certain way. We want to understand why they’re behaving that way and resolve that behavior through our response, resolving the cause of the behavior.

But it’s a process, it’s a big learning process for us. So maybe we’re kind of in the middle, like a lot of people are, like most people are, I would say, that are interested in this. And maybe it’s always a process, we’re never at the end. But we’re not quite able to picture yet, and therefore embrace inside ourselves, how a more respectful approach to boundaries looks and feels. It sounds good, but we’re not quite there yet.

And again, that’s so understandable because there are just not enough viable models of this for us to learn from. There’s a lot of people these days sharing tips and scripts and perspectives, but that’s not the same as seeing it in action. That’s not enough to be able to make this enormous shift, cycle-breaking a lot of the times. It’s a huge deal that we’re trying to accomplish here, and we’re not going to be able to snap our fingers and do it. And especially because we can’t see it in action, we kind of have to find our way there without that. Shifting from what we’ve known all our childhood, all our life, about the way that parents respond to your behavior. And the things that you would never, ever do because you wouldn’t dream of doing them because your parent would punish you or yell at you or reject you in some way. How does it look in all these situations to own our positive power as leaders for our children? How does that look in all these specifics that happen every day when our child is saying no or being bossy or telling everybody what to do, being rude, disrespectful? We would’ve never gotten away with that. We would never have dreamed of doing it.

So that’s a lot that we’re up against, right? And I wish I could show you right now—and maybe there will be a way in the future that I can do that, besides through my podcast and my writing and recently my online course. Maybe there will be a way that I can demonstrate this, but in lieu of that, I’ll just keep sharing and offering verbal examples to try to help you picture this for yourself.

So this son of theirs, he’s very strong, which is so very positive. And what he’s showing through his behavior in this family is that he really needs to know 100% that he’s not able to run the show. That his parents are even more powerful than him. That they can be the leaders that he needs, so that he can be the child in the relationship, so that he can be freer.

How do we do that? These are the things that are getting in their way. One thing they’re doing is they’re getting caught up with the surface, which is the behaviors that are in their face. Why is he doing this? This is disrespectful. We’ve got to make that stop. Instead of that broader perspective, that deeper perspective, seeing beyond to why he’s acting like this. We can get so easily caught up in this, especially if we had an authoritarian upbringing. How dare my child act like this? I’ve got to make that stop. I’ve got to make sure they do this and I’ve got to make sure they eat and make sure they bathe and not let him talk to me that way. And push back on all these behaviors.

So I’m trying to fix it on a surface, behavioral level instead of seeing this bigger picture that he’s calling for help underneath all this. Not even consciously, he doesn’t know he’s doing it. But he’s checking out again and again and again, and it’s been years now, so he’s kind of stuck there, as they are. Now, as this child, I’m kind of assuming this role in the family of this child who behaves like this. How did this happen? I don’t want to be here. I don’t want to be doing this. I just want them to look at me and see the small person and say, “I’m not going to let you talk to me like that.” Instead of reacting to it and trying to push back on it. Or just letting it go, because we don’t want to push back at it, we don’t want to yell at him, but now we feel like we’re not sticking up for ourselves and it feels terrible. There is a way that’s not either of those things that I’m going to talk about.

So what I would like to help this parent and other parents see is what’s really going on. It’s not that he thinks it’s okay to do these things. And the most wonderful part of this note is that she says at the end, “I should mention he’s good for others. There are rare complaints from school.” Wow. So what can we take from that? He knows how to behave. He understands other people’s boundaries. He’s learned all the lessons that they want him to learn because he’s doing them with other adults and peers. He knows how to do it. So these parents are getting their messages across to him. However, in his relationship with them, they’re all still floundering because his parents aren’t quite giving him what he needs with them.

Now sometimes with children, they will be doing these kinds of behaviors away from the home too. That’s a sign that they are feeling overwhelmed with the amount of power that they have with other people. And sometimes you’ll see children like this and maybe they have a teacher that punishes, uses timeout, or friends that reject them. And while those things are hurtful and make them feel very alone, you can also get the sense sometimes that they’re almost grateful for the rest that they get there. Being in timeout, it doesn’t feel good, but it’s a rest from having to be this power player all the time. A little break from it. And sometimes you’ll see children that seem to even want that kind of punishment in a way because it feels like a little escape from that uncomfortable feeling of overpowering everybody.

But this boy does not have that issue at all, so that should give these parents even more confidence. We can help with this. We can change this by owning our power, by assuming our role in the family. Which is to not get wound up by what a seven-year-old or a six-year-old or a three-and-a-half-year-old is doing. Really seeing them as small children. Yes, they’re very capable, they’re very strong, they could be very articulate and bossy and powerful-seeming. But they’re little tiny people with just a few years or less than a dozen years on this planet. Whereas we have decades, right? Why would we let them push our buttons? So, getting caught up with the surface and just those behaviors that are in our face, that drains us, that drains our power. Our buttons get pushed because our upbringing is getting touched off, those experiences that we had with our parents.

Another thing that can get in our way is that we might be afraid our child isn’t going to be a nice child, that they’re messing up, that they’re a rude person, that they’re all these things. In this case, the child is showing that they’re not when they’re out in the world. But even if they were, that’s a stuck place that a child is in. It’s not who they are, it’s not a sign that they’re that kind of person. And we have the absolute power to shift this.

Another way they’re draining themselves in the moment is repeating themselves. Repeating ourselves, let’s consider why we’re doing that. Do we think that saying it another time, when our child clearly isn’t going to jump to what we said the first time, do we think that just saying it and saying it, that’s going to help? It very seldom does. And sometimes even the way we say it the first time, if we kind of look at it, it can be from a place of powerlessness. A way to own our power, positive power, when he doesn’t listen, he rebuts everything they say or ask of him. So if he’s not listening, saying it again is not going to help him listen, not going to help him do it. And a lot of times the first time we say it, we’re kind of saying it with that tone in our voice that’s either challenging, like, You’ve got to do this, come on, or already feeling like we’re mad at him and this isn’t going to work. When we own our power, we can be polite. We’re rising above, feeling that feeling of rising tall into our power and, “Oh, it’s time to do this. Would you please help?” Very open like that, not in a kind of already defensive or challenging manner.

Because a child that has a strong will like this—it’s a wonderful thing, they tend to be charismatic and colorful people and power players in the world—but they especially, and really all children, it’s not going to work with them when we’re challenging them. That’s going to create a chasm between us. What does help is for us to reach across, be our politest, most loving selves, and help them to save face so that they’re not in this adversarial position with us. We can put them into that place by the way that we ask them things. And again, it’s hard not to, if our child never does this and is getting on our nerves already and now we’re asking them to do something, it’s probably going to come off in a manner that’s not going to help us. And then what do we do? We get drained, we say it again, and then we feel smaller and smaller and smaller and less powerful.

So I would consider—and I’ve done a whole podcast about this—I’m not going to repeat myself, I’m going to say, “You know what? I’m going to give you a helping hand, here we go,” or, “Let me help turn the water on for you, darling.” Not sarcastically, it’s got to be genuine, but we’re not going to allow that gap between us. We’re going to reach our arms out through it and carry our child through as best that we can. And then if they’re still digging their heels in, we can let go of a lot of those things. “You don’t want to take a bath right now? Okay, let’s skip it.” Letting go of those not-crucial things for the win, so that in the bigger picture we’re not putting ourselves in that position of feeling powerless and our child is not getting stuck in that position of feeling nagged and pushed, which just makes them want to hold their ground even more.

Another way these parents are making it harder on themselves is inconsistency. So I hear this from parents a lot when they’re reaching out to me, they’ll say, We’re trying all these different things. This parent says, “We value respectful parenting, but find ourselves going from one extreme to another on the parenting spectrum because we’re so frustrated.” That’s understandable, but we’re creating more eventual frustration for ourselves by not being consistent. Because what happens on our child’s end, our perceptive child gets this message, and it can happen very young too, our child gets stuck wondering, and then they behave out of that wondering. What are they going to do this time? Even though they know, of course, that will make us angry and it’s not what they know they should do. But it becomes almost intriguing. What are they going to do this time? I feel that they’re almost exploding, so I’ve got to keep pushing that button to see if that’s going to come through. Leaving our child wondering like that is not going to be as helpful. It’s going to cause them to get stuck in those kinds of behaviors, those resistant behaviors. I know it can be difficult if maybe one of the parents is trying to go for a more respectful approach, but the other parent isn’t there yet, and that’s okay. The parents don’t have to be the same, but if each one of them could be consistent in the way they respond, that would help our child from this need to, I think of it as testing.

But it’s interesting, recently I’ve been hearing a lot of negative comments, not directed at me so much yet, I’m sure they will. But comments about that word testing, people don’t like the word toddlers testing. And that’s understandable to me, I appreciate this. This is very much constructive criticism that has got me thinking that the connotation of testing, it’s this adversarial thing. They’re trying to get me to perform in a certain way, that that’s how we think of testing. And that doesn’t help us to see our child in a positive, loving light and to see the help that they’re asking for here. When I use testing, I’m using it to mean they’re checking it out, like the way children will test toys and objects. What happens if I do this with it? What happens when I put these two together? So that’s what I mean by testing, I mean they’re checking it out. They’re very drawn to learning, children are expert learners in the early years especially. And most of all, they want to learn about us and their relationships with us and where their power is in our relationship, how much they have and how much we have. And they hope in their heart of hearts that we have a lot more than them because they can’t be free, young children without that and get to have a full childhood where they don’t have to worry about us, we’ve got it covered.

So, inconsistency, it’s totally understandable when we’re trying to find our way in this. And maybe we’re not in that role enough that we’re just feeling like, Now we’re just letting him be awful to us. It’s very hard not to get our buttons pushed and blow up.

So now I want to talk a little about all of these things that this parent brought up that her child is doing and how to respond to them from a positive power/leadership role. She says he doesn’t listen. I try to demonstrate a little about how to be when a child isn’t listening. It can be taking their hand, helping them physically. Also just approaching them with politeness and positive energy so we’re not already foreshadowing that it’s all going to go wrong. And really, how can a child push back when we’re being so polite? They’ll find a way, but when we’re welcoming their feelings, when we’re seeing their point of view, “Oh, it’s so hard to stop playing, I know, and take a bath now.” And we can state positive consequences of what’s going to happen next, like “Let’s help you get your bath, and if you want I can wash your hair. I love doing that. And then when you’re done with your bath, it’ll be time for dinner.” Using that positive, polite attitude rather than dreading and I’m already annoyed, or You better not I’m-challenging-you attitude. That’s when we own our power. We’ve got nothing to lose, right? If he doesn’t do it, it’s not the end of the world. If it’s something that we can physically stop, we stop it. We’re not afraid that he doesn’t know how to behave properly, and then every time that he does this, that’s feeding our fear. We understand this as a dynamic that he’s gotten caught up in with us.

So, “rebuts everything we say or ask of him.” Right there, one way to diffuse that or just own your positive power there is to say, “Hmm, okay, that’s an interesting point of view. You know what? We’re still going to do this.” But not to get into, “Yes it is. No it’s not. No it’s not, young man.” You know, have a light attitude about that. But again, that can trigger into our we could never do this with our parents, we would’ve gotten yelled at feelings. So that’s something that will help if you really explore it, if you haven’t already. Come into communion with the experiences that you had and how that made you feel and how hard it is every time your child does this, that it just feels wrong, right? Because it was considered so wrong for us to act like this. That’s going to get in our way, so explore that, make peace with it. Ideally put it aside, so that it doesn’t get in the way of the power that you own in this relationship and that your child desperately wants you to own.

Let him rebut everything, let him talk back. Just don’t get into a snapping back thing with him and talking back and talking back at him. Rise above it. “Oh, you don’t want to do that. Okay, hmm, that’s interesting.” Allow him to argue and don’t take the bait, don’t buy into it. Because he’s testing or checking out, Can I throw them off-balance? And if we decide we’re not going off-balance for this guy, if we practice that, then we won’t. And then he’ll stop because he’s getting what he unconsciously is asking for and needs: parents that can rise above and see him for what he is, a small child.

I just want to mention, too, that if these parents can make the shift—yes, the fact that it’s been going on for a few years now, it may take a little while for it to shift. But probably not as long as we think, because this is what our child wants in his heart of hearts more than anything. And when our child is getting what they want, then the shift can happen pretty quickly. But I would be prepared for there to be, in the transition, way more rebuttals, everything to be harder, way more resistance. He’s going to check this out to the hilt, hoping to find that relief, which you can give him. So he talks back, let him talk back. Rise taller, which means you don’t talk back at him talking back.

“Extremely rude and disrespectful.” So he can try those things, but the way to rise above those is to let it pass by, knowing he’s just trying out all the words and all the things that have bothered you before. But hold your ground, don’t go get him the thing he wants when he’s being rude or disrespectful. Stick up for yourself that way, that’s where the boundaries are here. “I don’t really appreciate that. Is there another way you can say that to me? Because that doesn’t make me feel like helping you right now.” That honest response, but not an offended response, If we can help it. Which means we have to do all this work in our perceptions of him, what he’s doing, what’s really going on here. Not just seeing that surface behavior, but seeing beyond to the red flag that he’s raising. Help, help, help, guys! Don’t let me do this anymore. See that, so that we don’t get offended. We see, Oh gosh, he’s got to try everything in the world now. He’s got to check it out to see, for us to prove to him that we can be this.

And I think the reason that I love this work so much is because what it brought out of me with my child, who was maybe three when I started to open my eyes to what was going on and that I needed to adjust my approach, what it brought out of me, it allowed me to grow a side of myself that I never knew I had. A powerful side that can love when someone isn’t being that loving, that can still love, but not be a pushover, not give into. But still love them and come back at them with love. It seems like a big thing to ask of ourselves, but it feels so good when you find that place, and everybody has it in them.

So, “extremely rude and disrespectful.” This has gone on because we’ve gotten triggered by it, because we’ve reacted to it, understandably. Rise above. See it as this little tiny person railing at your ankles, saying all these things and names and trying so hard to pull us down. And we’re not going to let it happen.

She says “he rarely takes care of himself—showering, eating, dressing, brushing teeth.” And she said, “we have to give him constant, repeated reminders to do these things.” So, those repeated reminders are getting in the way of him doing these things and making us feel drained of power. They’re not helping him, they’re making him hold onto his uncomfortable power that he doesn’t want to have. Don’t remind him, just say, “After you shower, we’re going to eat.” If he doesn’t want to eat, don’t make him eat. “The food’s going to be out. Here’s what we’re offering. We’d love you to sit and eat with us, but if you can’t, you can’t. Okay, we understand.” Let go of what you don’t control. If he really doesn’t want to shower, “Okay, you don’t have to shower today. Do you want to take a bath instead? Let’s have a smell and see if you need cleaning.” But anyway, have a lighthearted attitude about this.

Dressing, I would consider helping him dress instead of telling him to do it. Brushing his teeth, I mean all of these things, these are caregiving activities, except for the eating he really needs to do on his own. But I would offer to help him with the showering and the dressing, the brushing his teeth. So we’re not nagging, we’re not repeating ourselves. We’re just saying, “Can I help you do that? I know it’s hard. It’s a bummer to do, right? You don’t want to get dressed right now. Let me help you. I love dressing you.” Even though he’s seven years old and of course he knows how to do it himself, sometimes children just want a little TLC there. And yes, he’ll resist. “Oh no, no, I don’t want help.” “Oh come on, let me do it. I love doing it.” If we come at him with love, it’s going to melt away some of that resistance.

And then, “he acts helpless. He rarely self-plays.” That I would leave alone. I wouldn’t direct him to play on his own or do anything. That requires him to be able to let go on his own of being the power player in the house. And that’s going to be a process that he’ll come to.

“No personal space awareness, always around us.” So instead of letting that bother you, just kindly but firmly push him back. “You know what? I need a little more room here. I’m going to move you over.” But don’t let it bother you that he wants to be all over you. If you don’t let that bother you, and you just take your space when you need it. “You know what? I am going to close the door to the bathroom, and I’m actually going to lock it.” Calmly, confidently own your space. Don’t let it bother you that he’s shadowing you. Just push him back when it’s too close. “You know what? I don’t want you grabbing me.” And while you’re doing that, you’re going to take his hand off of you very comfortably, very confidently. “You’re feeling really touchy. Yeah, I don’t want the touch right now. Thanks though.” So taking the power out of that behavior.

And then she said, “repeat ourselves on boundaries.” So instead of talking the boundaries, and definitely instead of repeating them, help him stop with the behavior.

“Making loud, weird noises when his sister is sleeping.” So we really can’t control that directly. What I would do is welcome him to make the loud noises with you. “You know what? I know that’s really fun to do, isn’t it? And get us wound up that way. Come on, I want to hear those noises over here. Let’s go over to the living room and hear those noises. They’re very funny, huh?” The less you feed into that, the sooner it will go away. I mean, sometimes I would just let it go, honestly, altogether, and just say, “Hmm, you’re really having fun there. Making those noises, huh? Wow, that’s very loud, isn’t it?” He will stop when you stop getting bothered by it. And really, that’s true across the board with all these behaviors, and that’s what owning your power is. He’s going to wake her up this one time, and he won’t do it again if you let it go. And do the opposite of what he’s expecting, which is he’s expecting you to keep getting mad at him, getting your buttons pushed. We can deactivate these buttons, we really can.

She says, “we value respectful parenting, but find ourselves going from one extreme to another because we’re frustrated. Nothing works, nothing gets to him, nothing changes his behavior.” Right, because they’re trying too hard and responding to all these little things instead of rising taller, doing less, not trying to change his behavior that way. It’s like that story about how the wind was trying to make this man take off his jacket, and it wasn’t working. And then out comes the sun. The sun just shines. And sure enough, the man takes off his jacket. The sun doesn’t have to try so hard. Be the sun and save your power for positive power.

And then she says her daughter started doing it too, “not listening and manipulates us.” Yeah, so she’s started exploring the same thing. What is this power this behavior has with my parents? And now I need to check it out, too. And I don’t want to have more power than them either. As far as the two children together, when her “son is always engaging her in play, controlling what she can do.” Let them do that. Let him do that with her. She’ll stand up for herself with him, she’ll learn to. And let that go. I mean, he’s playing with her. That’s amazing for a seven-year-old to want to play with a two-and-a-half-year-old, right? They are going to be dominating in that play. As long as he’s not hurting her, I would let it go. And “telling her to say and do things that he knows that she shouldn’t.” I would try to be, honestly, amused by that. “Oh now you’re trying that too. Yeah, you learned that from your brother, huh? Very clever. Yeah, that doesn’t really work with us, but sure, go for it.”

Deactivate the buttons. Save your energy. Be the sun.

I really hope some of this helps, and thanks so much to these parents for reaching out to me. I feel you and I believe in you 100%.

Please check out some of the other podcasts on my website, janetlansbury.com. They’re all indexed by subject and category, so you should be able to find whatever topic you might be interested in. And my books, No Bad Kids: Toddler Discipline Without Shame, and Elevating Child Care: A Guide to Respectful Parenting, you can get them in paperback at Amazon and in ebook at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and apple.com.

Thanks so much for listening. We can do this.

The post Our Strong-Willed Child Is Running the Show appeared first on Janet Lansbury.

Transcript of “Consequences vs Threats vs Punishments”

From Janet’s inbox: A parent wonders if reminding her 3-year-old of negative consequences to his uncooperative behavior is the same as using threats or manipulation. She writes that her goal is not only to help him move through transitions with less pushback, but to learn the concept of time, how to manage it, and to feel empowered to make choices and achieve his desires. Janet offers her thoughts on the differences between threats, consequences, and punishments, and suggests minor adjustments this family can make to better enable their goals. 

Hi, this is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled.

Today I’m going to be talking about consequences, threats, punishments. How these apply to a respectful, effective discipline approach—if they do at all—and how can we be certain whether we’re doing one or another. For instance, most of us listening here I think know that punishments aren’t helpful, but is a consequence actually a punishment or is a consequence actually a threat? How do we navigate this?

I’m going to start by reading an email I received from a parent. For clarity, this is a two-mom family:

Hi, Janet-

First-time caller, longtime listener, so to speak. My question has to do with understanding the difference or nuance between using a threat and an explanation of natural consequences with a three-year-old. I understand generally why disconnected threats aren’t great to throw around when you’re trying to “get” your child to do something, like get out the door to go to school, get in the stroller to go home from the playground, etc. But how about explanations of natural, time-bound consequences used as a reminder and posited as a choice to your child when they aren’t being cooperative or participatory?

For example, “Mama has to leave the house by 7:15 tonight. If you’d like her to be able to put you to bed, you need to participate right now by,” and she gives examples, getting in the tub, getting out of the tub, helping put on PJs, etc. “Otherwise, I’m happy to do it myself.” Another example, “We have to get into the car for the birthday party in 10 minutes. I see you’re having trouble with this transition of putting on clothes, shoes, etc. If you don’t want to go, you can stay home with me, but Mama is going to be leaving soon because it’s important to her to go.”

This is obviously caught up in the concept of time, and we try to use a timer whenever we can to illustrate how much there is left, but at what age does this all make sense? Is it manipulative of me and my wife to explain things this way to our child even when it’s trying to help him get what he wants? Are these just threats in sheep’s clothing or are they a helpful way to explain that life around the child keeps moving and that they have a level of choice of how they participate within that? And also that other people (parents!) have choices and needs and responsibilities outside their children as well.

Any feedback would be great. Thanks so much for all you do.

And then this parent, she wrote back:

One thing, if it’s not too late, to clarify. Sure, a lot of this is about moving things along in his schedule to get him from point A to B to C when he needs some nudging, but plenty is also based in helping him accomplish what he wants to accomplish. For example, he wants to go to the park, he wants to have time to play after dinner, he wants to go see so-and-so, etc. It’s also about trying to help him understand that his participation and “time management,” if there can be such a thing for such small people, means we can get to the thing he wants sooner or have more time to do it. Thanks.

So yeah, I can see that this parent is kind of grappling with some sort of nuanced ideas. And one thing that can help us as a parent is to get some clarity by stopping and considering what we want out of this. What do we want for our child? What are our goals in the choices that we’re making? And this parent implies and brings up some very positive goals. She wants her and her wife’s son to have choices, know that he has that agency, and that he will learn time management. Also, that he’ll be cooperative so they don’t have to keep battling to help him through these kinds of transitions and situations. They want him to know that he has choice and also that other people, his parents, and therefore everybody else that he’ll come across in life, has their own personal needs and boundaries. The world does not revolve around him, and that’s a positive thing for children to learn. It’s also positive because we need to have our boundaries. That is what self-care is in a nutshell, boundaries. We need that to be good parents, we deserve that, and it’s really important for our child to learn as well. So, there are a lot of positive goals I’m picking up here.

How do we achieve those and what role do consequences or threats or punishments play into that? So this parent didn’t bring up punishments, but punishments are sometimes behind when we think we’re giving consequences or using consequences. And really the key here to not be punishing with a consequence is to approach it the way this parent seems to do. Which is, she says, “understanding the difference or nuance between using a threat and an explanation of natural consequences with a three-year-old.” Sometimes I’ll hear people say, using a consequence, should I use a consequence? And just that word “use” is what can sort of make a consequence into more of a punishment or threat. That’s when it becomes manipulative. We’re using something that ideally should be just an organic part of our child’s education. If I do this, this happens. If I make this choice, that happens. So it is, as this parent said, an explanation that we want. Consider this sharing honestly our personal needs and thoughts and what we know about the day and how it’s going to work. So we’re sharing honestly, it’s not about using or giving a consequence to have a certain effect, to make our child behave better, or make them be more cooperative.

Because the thing about using consequences or threats or punishments is that those aren’t going to help us achieve our goals. To have a more cooperative child, they need to feel consistently that we are on their team and not working against them to try to negotiate, manipulate in any way. When we’re helping them to do the things we need them to do and the things that are good for them and we’re on their side. We want them to get what they want. If what they want is to go to the park, we want to do all in our power to help that to happen. But we also don’t want to be doormats that just accept any kind of stalling or behavior or pushback to help a child get what they want, because that is not going to be helpful to them or to us. But our overall goal, besides these goals that this parent brings up, the overall positive goal for us to want our child to learn is that they can trust us. We’re on their team, we’re on their side. We’re not working against them or across the table from them. But we are still taking care of ourselves and being honest.

And when we use punishments or use consequences as punishments or use threats, it doesn’t feel as good to us. It’s going to wear us down and make it harder for us to be the kind of parents we want to be because it feels petty, it feels manipulative. And not that any of us are perfect or should even be striving towards that. There’s maybe a part of us in a lot of us that just wants to say, Well, then I’m not giving you any! and we get triggered to that level that our child is behaving at sometimes. And that’s normal, that’s okay, we need to forgive ourselves for that. But it’s not the aspects of our personality that we want our children to emulate or that will help us achieve our goals.

So across the board, there’s nothing this parent is sharing in her note that sounds like a threat or a punishment. It sounds like she is explaining sort of natural, logical consequences. What I think I could maybe help her with is that there are ways to do that that will be more effective than others. Because when we talk about threats, it’s not so much that that’s something separate from a consequence. It’s in our delivery. We can deliver the explanation of a consequence in a sort of threatening manner, which it doesn’t sound like this parent’s doing, but it’s a common thing to have that tone in our voice that is a little bit challenging.

And I’m wondering if with this parent, because children are very sensitive to this, the way that she’s explaining things is putting her child in this sort of challenged position where it’s even harder for him to make a positive choice. Because when children feel that kind of, Well, if you don’t do this, then that’s not going to happen. Even if we don’t have that threatening tone, even if we’re just, Well, if you don’t do this, this is going to happen and you won’t get to do this, that can be, believe it or not, too much of a challenge for a child. They get stuck there. It’s like, Hmm, I have to figure this out now.

And not only are a lot of these situations transitions, trying to get out the door, get out of the bath, get to bed. As I’ve said many times, transitions are just this sticky place for young children, a sticky, uncomfortable place that they really need extra help to get through. And then especially if we’re trying to be so respectful, like this parent is, letting you know the options and how much time and showing him the timer—it’s too much information, it’s too much choice. I did a podcast recently about the choices that children can handle and the choices that they really can’t. And in a transition, they very seldom can make a choice.

The other element to this is the parent preferences element. So I’ve written a lot about this. It’s a common thing that happens with two parents that the child either is more comfortable with that parent during certain activities or—and this is true when the preference situation kind of builds steam and gets more extreme with children—where they insist they have to only have this parent and not the other parent. What’s often happening there is that the parent that they’re craving is the parent who is having a harder time being clear and expressing their personal boundaries and allowing them to have their feelings around that. I don’t know if that’s happening in this case, but that’s another sticky place. So not only the explanations and all these options and choices that a child has to figure out—I know it doesn’t seem like a lot to us as adults, but to them it is because they’re in a constant transition emotionally, developmentally, and then these life transitions just are the last straw for them a lot of the time. But if I also have to decide, Okay, which parent am I going to please? Is this parent going to set the boundaries I need, unconsciously, that I’m asking for? They’re having a hard time with that, so do I try to get that again? What do I really want here? It’s a lot for a child to try to figure out at three years old or even at four years old or six years old, with other stressful circumstances that may be going on, or just the fact that it’s a transition.

So I don’t know when this parent is talking about Mama has to do this and that, I don’t know if she’s just doing that to explain to me what’s going on or if she’s actually saying to her child, “Mama has to do this and Mama has to do that.” Because it would be more helpful for the other parent, for Mama, to be the one to set the boundary. And then when I set the boundary or explain the boundary, or the consequence in this case, as that parent, frame it positively whenever possible. This parent said, “Mama has to leave the house by 7:15 tonight. If you’d like her to be able to help put you to bed, you need to participate right now by getting in the tub, getting out of the tub.” So if this parent—she says her child calls her Tata—if Tata is the one giving the bath and it’s time for their boy to get out of the bath, then she could be the one to say to him, “Hey, just so you know, Mama’s leaving and I know you love to have Mama put you to bed, or this is her turn, or I know you’ve been preferring that lately, so come on, let’s get out. I’m going to help you out so that Mama has time to put you to bed before she leaves.” Framing it positively instead of as a, If you don’t do this, just so you know, you’re not going to get to do that, which challenges them in a way that makes it much harder on them. So, helping him get what he wants.

And then Mama has to also be strong and clear about her boundaries. Let’s say that this parent couldn’t get him out of the bath or he wouldn’t get the PJs on, he wouldn’t comply. I would lead this as much as possible with confidence, saying, “I know you want to see Mama, so we’re going to do this. Come on. Ah, you don’t want to do it right now. It’s hard at the end of the day when you’re tired, right? I’m here to help you out.” That kind of attitude, confident momentum, that’s what I call this, helping him through as best you can. But if for some reason it still doesn’t work out, then Mama ideally will say, “Oh, I would love to, but I have to go now, darling. I would love to put you to bed. Sorry, that’s not going to work out. But yeah, you can be upset, you can be mad at me.” So in that way, we support our partner, we support the other parent instead of having all the onus be on them.

And in this situation with the birthday party, this parent says, “We have to get into the car for the birthday party in 10 minutes. I see you’re having trouble with this transition of putting on clothes. If you don’t want to go, you can stay home with me, but Mama’s going to be leaving soon because it’s important to her to go.” So, could be more helpful if Mama steps in here and doesn’t leave this all on the other parent. Again, I don’t know if that’s actually happening or if this is just the way the parent is able to express it to me. Maybe Mama could be the one to say, “We’re going to go to this party. I’m really looking forward to going with you, so let’s get you dressed. I know it’s hard to get going and get moving, right? But I know you really want to go, so Tata’s going to help you get dressed and then we’ll go. I’m looking forward to it.” And then Tata tries to move him through with confident momentum, acknowledging that it’s hard, because transitions are. So she doesn’t have to be the one to bring up the consequence again, just doing her best to get it going. And then if he can’t, if he’s really putting up a big fight, just say, “You know what? It seems like maybe you don’t want to go and that’s okay because I love staying with you. You can stay here with me.” And then maybe he’ll not be able to make up his mind or whatever, and then it’s up to the two of you parents to decide if mother can wait at all, if she can’t.

But just to be clear and to be comfortable with him being uncomfortable in a transition and maybe not able to decide. And maybe you discover later that day that, You know what? He was exhausted. Usually it’ll be clear to us why our child was not able to get it together, even with our confident momentum and help and coming from the most positive place that we can. The key to this is recognizing going in that transitions of any kind, choices of any kind like this, about activities that aren’t just, Oh, here you could play with your ball or play with your puzzle. It’s a bigger deal to go to the park than it is to just choose between your toys at home, which you can do easily. Children do need help in those kinds of choices and transitions, and if we go in knowing that, expecting it, then it’s going to be easier for us to embrace the situation and be that positive person.

And it really is about, also, that we set our limits early and we have reasonable expectations. So the expectation that transitions are going to be hard and where are my actual boundaries? I’m not willing to go to this party late. I’m not sure what the exact situation was with the parent. I would be very clear about that with myself, with my partner, if there’s a partner involved, and with my child. “I really want you to go, this is how much time we have,” and then you could look at the time. “We’re going to do everything we can to help you go, because you said you did want to go earlier. But if you don’t and it doesn’t work out, that’s okay too.” That clarity that we have going in is what will make this easier or harder and ease our frustration around our child’s lack of cooperation.

But again, that big picture in mind, it’s this trust, it’s this communication, it’s this we’re on your team approach to boundaries, discipline, transitions, everything, that actually makes for less of these issues. So we always want to keep that bigger goal in mind because that’s how our life is going to get easier with our child and we’re going to get what we want. Honesty, trust, clarity, and the willingness for him to have his disappointments and his frustrations and his sadness and anger and everything else. Knowing that that’s a healthy part of life for him.

So, just to speak to some of the details in this as well: This idea of the concept of time, children do learn this very gradually, but they have this wonderful living-in-the-moment outlook. And that’s why it can be challenging to say, “Well, this is how many more minutes you have until that.” There’s no comfort for them in that future decision-making, it’s not going to be easy for them. A positive way that you can help him understand time is maybe for Tata to say, “I have all these minutes that I get to spend helping you get out the door. That’s my job in this, so I’m really going to enjoy this with you. Here’s the time that we have.” Instead of this being a negative thing, if we can frame it as more of a positive, it takes the onus off of it for our child, takes the dun-da-dun-dun! out of it.

And then, through these clear boundaries that both parents have, yes, children do get that positive message that they don’t have the power to control all the grownups. In a way it’s like, Don’t worry. You don’t have to decide this. We’re going to decide it for you. And really that’s the way children receive it a lot of the time, especially in situations like these that are transitions. It’s, Don’t worry. We know you want to go to the park. We’re doing everything in our power to get you there. And if we still fail, if we can’t, we can’t. And then it’s okay for you to be whatever you feel about that. That’s a place of clarity and comfort we can rest in and be at our best in as parents.

So this parent asks, “Is it manipulative?” I don’t think anything they’re doing is manipulative. It’s just difficult for him when they explain it so much and are kind of warning him of that choice. “Are these just threats in sheep’s clothing?” No, but they could be said in a way that feels like a threat to a child. It’s in our delivery. “Or are they a helpful way to explain that life around the child keeps moving and that they have a level of choice?” Yes, absolutely. But we can still frame this as, Not everything’s up to you. Your team’s going to back you up and help you get what you want.

So what is the role that consequences play in respectful discipline? Consequences don’t work when they’re a euphemism for punishments. That’s when we’re using, we’re giving, rather than explaining honestly the consequence. And I know that punishments can sometimes succeed in deterring behavior, but more often than not, they lead to more and more punishments because they don’t teach or model for children the positive behavior that we want them to learn. And children tend to internalize shame and anger when they’re punished. It creates distance, isolation, mistrust. It’s the opposite of joining with our child, connecting with them as the helpful team leader. We have to be the team leaders.

Also, when they’re unrelated to the situation and they’re given long after the fact, Well, you didn’t do this, so we’re not going to allow you to have your dessert tonight because you didn’t help us clean up or you said something unkind. Children really have a sense of fairness, even from infancy. They’re able to sense right and wrong, good guys and bad guys. There’s been some fascinating studies on this. And they know when we’re using something when it’s a little bit manipulative versus really makes sense and fair. And they may still have a big reaction when something is fair, but they still sense underneath that that we’re being fair, we’re being kind, we’re on their team.

Another way that consequences don’t really work is when, with a bit of forethought, we could have avoided or prevented the situation by creating a boundary or helping our child with our confident momentum. So there’s that point I was trying to make earlier about helping your child get what they want, being on their team that way, setting them up to succeed whenever possible.

So now what do we want to know about consequences that are respectful and effective? They are logical, reasonable, age-appropriate choices, like, “Oh, I can’t let you throw those blocks toward the window. You’re having a hard time not throwing the blocks. You can throw those over there toward the rug or the basket, or I’m going to need to put them away.” And then, “Okay, looks like you need my help. I’m going to put the blocks away.” So we’re stating them kindly and confidently, without that threatening tone if possible, and then we let go and move on. We don’t hold on to the results. Again, for most of us, this means setting a limit early before we get annoyed or angry.

Another point that helps consequences work is when they’re coupled with acknowledgements of our child’s point of view and feelings, always, no matter how unreasonable they might seem. So our child is, let’s say, hitting people at the park, obviously showing they’re overwhelmed. We had to take them home and now they’re really upset. “You really wanted to stay at the park. But you were having a hard time, you were hitting your friends. So I said we had to go. But yeah, it sounds like you’re really mad about that.” Feelings are not reasonable. Feelings are just feelings. And the more we can have that across-the-board welcoming of them, the easier our job’s going to be, the more successful we’ll be in helping children with their behavior and feeling bonded with us.

Consequences help when they’re a consistent, predictable response. So they’re elements of a routine that our child recognizes. “Hmm, you’re standing up now, you’re done eating. Oh, and now you’re sitting back down for more. Okay, please wait until you’re all finished to get up. Okay, now you’re showing me you’re up again, so thanks for letting me know, I’m going to put the food away. Oh no, you’re upset that I put the food away, right? We’re going to be eating again very soon.”

Also, that consequences are a genuine expression of our personal limits, right? That’s what I was talking about with these parents. This is self-care, and I believe we need all the encouragement in the world, a lot of us, to take care of ourselves in these relationships. And do it calmly, honestly, confidently, so that we’re not going to explode with our children. I mean, we’re doing this for so many positive reasons, for ourselves, for our relationship with our child, and for our child to learn really important things about relationships and other people. And that their place in the world is not all-powerful. All-powerful is a lot of pressure to a young child, they don’t want that. They can’t tell us that, but they really don’t want that. That’s when they have to grow up too fast. That’s when they have to have all that pressure to try to control everybody. We want to relieve them of that. And we do that by sharing ourselves, being a person with our child in this relationship, a person with needs. So, we can let our child know, “I’m exhausted. I know you’d love to have two books, but I think we’re getting to one book because this is taking a long time. Can you move it a little faster? Or we’ll do one book.” Maybe that doesn’t sound like it’s framed that positively, but that’s honest, right? My needs matter. I’m exhausted. I can’t try to help you, help you, help you brush your teeth or get your pajamas on or stop jumping around. I don’t have the energy for that. And as much as I love to read to you, I’m not always going to be able to do it the way that you want. I’m not saying to say all those words, but that kind of attitude. Just being real, being ourselves, being fair and on their team.

And really that’s the biggest difference between consequences versus punishments and threats. It’s sincere, honest, open-hearted sharing. And reminding ourselves that we can’t be respectful parents or gentle parents without personal boundaries. Looking out for ourselves so that we don’t have anger and resentment towards our child, or just frustration, or we want to give up, we don’t think we can do this. It’s almost always rooted in that we’re not sticking up for ourselves.

So back to these parents, these two moms that reached out to me, I hope they’ll both feel confident in being honest about themselves. Maybe just try to take the edge off by not setting things up for him to have too much decision-making power in transitions or difficult situations. Children will show us when that’s not working by getting stuck there.

I really hope some of this helps, and thank you so much for listening. We can do this.

And please check out some of the other podcasts on my website, janetlansbury.com. They’re all indexed by subject and category, so you should be able to find whatever topic you might be interested in. And my books, No Bad Kids: Toddler Discipline Without Shame, and Elevating Child Care: A Guide to Respectful Parenting, you can get them in paperback at Amazon and in ebook at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and apple.com.

And now, at last, I have a online course! Learn more at: NoBadKidsCourse.com.

UPDATE: The parent who sent me the email kindly responded to this podcast:

Janet,

Thanks so much for all of your advice in response to my question. I appreciate what you said about the nuance in the tone and the shift in language and attitude. We’re both gonna work on that.

Also: You were so astute in your comment about our child’s parental preferences, which wasn’t even something I mentioned. My wife and I were cackling at that moment in the episode, because Noah does favor my wife and she does have a much harder time with boundaries than I do. (She was also his birth parent, which I imagine contributes some.) We’re gonna work on that too.

Tomorrow is another day and a new opportunity! 

Thanks so much for your time and wisdom.

She later added: “I’ll also share that we have a second on the way (due in May), and I’m going to see if I can start using all of your teachings much earlier with them than we were able to with the first.”

Yay! Thank you!

The post Consequences vs Threats vs Punishments (Includes an Update) appeared first on Janet Lansbury.

Transcript of “How to Be Strong Enough to Make the Really Big Changes”

Hi, this is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled.

Today I have some questions from parents. I love this first one’s subject line because it really describes what this is going to be about: “How to Be Strong Enough to Make the Really Big Changes.” So what can we do as parents to be able to bolster ourselves to make changes with our children that we know that they’re going to object to strongly? This can be anything from certain habits that we’ve gotten into with them that we want to change. Maybe less TV, more independent play, that’s what two of these are about. But it’s really about anything, any kind of change that our family has to make, that our children are not going to be on board with of their own volition. How can we do this? So that’s what I’m going to be talking about and I really hope what I have to say is helpful.

Here’s the first email I’d like to address, and this is the one with the subject line, “How to Be Strong Enough to Make the Really Big Changes”:

Hi, Janet-

I’ve been listening to your podcast on and off for a few years, and I really like a lot of your ideas, although I don’t know how successful I’ve been at implementing them with my kids, now three and five. One noticeable success is just the really basic feelings acknowledgement: You really didn’t like that, huh? Sounds like such a tiny thing, which means that when it stops what looks like is going to be a full-on tantrum dead in its tracks, and my three-year-old just sniffs, nods, and hugs me, it really feels like magic. It’s the bigger things that feel impossible, the stuff where you have to set a boundary and hold onto it through the initial reaction.

There are so many things we do that we know aren’t great in the long term, but they feel like the only way to get through the day in the short term. Where do we find the energy to cope with an actually increased difficulty level for a little while in the interests of making things easier later? For example, TV. I know my kids watch too much TV, but when their dad and I are so tired and the alternative is personally being climbed on, whinged at to actively play, it feels like we’re just not strong enough. Plus, a lot of the time, the only thing that will get the kids to stop messing around and get in the shower or whatever is the threat of not letting them watch TV the next day.

Even though I fully believe that changing our strategies and habits will improve our lives and relationships, taking these steps is so hard that I find myself just doing the usual thing and beating myself up about it, instead of doing something different.

Your podcast/blog backlog is truly impressive, and I feel like I’ve barely made a dent in it, so if you’ve given advice in the past on forcing yourself to make these changes and stick to it, I would really appreciate a link.

So I think a lot of us can relate to this, in terms of these habits—they do make our lives easier, but there’s this gnawing sense of maybe guilt that we have that it’s not really good for our children, and we’re kind of getting stuck in this guilt cycle. I feel guilty that we’ve let you do this, and that we’ve gotten into this thing of threatening no TV if you don’t do this or that. These don’t feel like our best parenting moments. And I’m not judging it, I’m just describing the kind of mind frame that a lot of us have around these things. And now when I try to say no, I am saying it kind of guiltily because I’m kind of beating myself up for letting you do this so much in the first place, and I don’t feel very strong because I feel guilty and bad. Now you’re pushing and you’re pushing and I can’t handle that, and then that makes me feel more guilty. As this parent described, she says, “I find myself just doing the usual thing and beating myself up about it, instead of doing anything different.” And really that’s the hardest part of this. If we could make these decisions and feel good about them, that would be a lot easier on us. But when we’re doing things and beating ourselves up about it, that’s impossible as a parent. It’s impossible to feel good and proceed with confidence and be those confident leaders.

So, a different setup here will really help. If you feel this is an important, right change to make, then the first step can be starting a new day, letting go of that past and making peace with it. We were doing it this way and now we’re going to do it this new way, because this feels right. And we’re going to give ourselves a big pass for whatever we did before this. I mean, this is such a challenging job, being a parent, because the stakes feel so high, it feels so important. It can be hard to see clearly. We all get stuck in patterns that we want to change, whether it’s relational patterns or patterns with the kind of things that we allow or don’t want to allow, or using threats or punishments. Whatever it is, everybody’s had their version of it or is still having it. So we can model for our children and be kind to ourselves by letting ourselves move on with a clear conscience. That’s not just for us, that’s for our children, so that we’re able to be what this parent describes as “strong enough.” And I want to talk a little about what strong means in this situation, too.

But yeah, we’ve got to let go. The past is the past for all of us in this world, especially parents. We deserve to give ourselves permission, and our children deserve for us to give ourselves permission, to end the guilt cycle for whatever we’ve done or haven’t done. If we feel we’ve done wrong by our children, it’s always a good idea to make amends. Bring it up, even if it’s years later, and say, We were giving you this ultimatum that if you didn’t do something, we were going to take away your TV, and we don’t want to work against you like that. We were kind of desperate because we really were tired and we needed your help. But we trust you. We’re all on the same team here, and we can let you know that we need your help and we want to work with you, not against you. I’m not saying to say all that, but that kind of mentality going into this. Even when we’re setting limits with our children, or especially then, we want to do it from a place of, that we believe we are helping them and we are doing the most loving thing.

I want to go over some of these challenges, though, that we’re up against. Our children’s discomfort sets off alarm bells for most of us. Even if we’ve been working on, dwelling on, and practicing a healthier perspective— which is what I try to do here and what I try to do for myself in my personal and professional life—disappointing them, feeling like we cause their upsetting feelings. I mean, it’s hard enough when they’re upset and we don’t feel like we’re the cause of it, it’s hard enough to allow for that to happen. But when we feel like we’re causing it, because we’re saying no or we’re telling them they can’t do this certain thing, that can feel impossible, right? So, understanding the peak of this challenge, it’s a tall order. Not expecting this to be easy.

But what helps us get beyond it? Knowing how healthy it is, for one thing, for our children to express every kind of feeling. It’s not fun for us, it’s not fun for them, but it’s so healthy for them to whine and cry and scream and complain when we’re doing our job, when we’re doing these reasonable, respectful things. Because they’re offloading all kinds of stress when they do that, all the pressures and the feelings of control that they were holding onto that weren’t healthy for them, they’re getting to vent those feelings. So reframing this from the most impossible thing because they’re mad at us to the most loving thing, that we’re giving them this organic opportunity just through our relationship and through honesty and respect and caring about them, we’re allowing them to feel whatever they feel about it. And that means they’re going to feel better on the other side of it.

Her experience with acknowledging isn’t really giving her the practice, because she said it’s working like magic. It’s not really giving her the practice of knowing that even if that acknowledgement didn’t stop her child from feeling something, that her child was going to feel better at the end of that feeling. It’s absolutely not as easy to trust that something that feels like it’s going to go on forever will stop. But that trust is what makes it stop. The same way that that acknowledging it can make it stop faster sometimes—sometimes, not all the time—but what that is is leaning into, Yeah, you get to feel mad about this. You get to feel bad about this. We’re doing that same thing there that we have to do with a longer meltdown. It’s really the same process, but we’re just not going to get as quick a result, so it’s harder.

We want to remind ourselves how healthy it is for our children to have all these kinds of feelings about everything and share them with us. This is not something to feel like it’s a problem, like we did something wrong. Actually, we’re doing something very right there by welcoming our children to feel whatever they feel. These things that they’re getting upset about, these are done in our child’s best interest. And I have come to believe that, on some level, our children know this. Even when they’re yelling and whining at us, they sense that we’re doing those hard things, which are much more loving. It’s much more loving to say no because we care about them than it is to say okay, shrug our shoulders, feel guilty, feel deflated, maybe feel grumpy with our children. That would make sense as part of that, right? Feeling frustrated, not liking them as much. That’s not as loving as saying no and allowing them to yell at us.

So, where the strength comes from is this perspective on their feelings, on our role, which is not to please them in every single moment, but to see the bigger picture. That’s what parents can do that children often can’t. They need us to do that part. So this is totally our job. This is on track, not off track. Nothing to feel wrong or guilty about, because we’re going to turn the page and we’re not going to dwell on what we did in the past. Today is today.

The strength that this parent is looking for is conviction. Conviction in what we decide is best for our child. And we’re seeing ourselves as heroes for making these hard, uncomfortable decisions out of passionate love for our children, because that’s what we are doing. And we’re seeing that those guilt loops, those are a trap that we can avoid with this antidote: conviction. And it’s not conviction in ourselves as some authoritarian leader, that whatever I say goes, it’s really conviction in our children that they are worth this effort. And this is heroic. Again, it’s not about strength in terms of forcefulness. It’s being clear, having that quiet belief that we can do this, that quiet conviction in our love for our kids. That’s where the strength comes from. That’s how to be strong enough. This most challenging part is the conviction. Once we have that, the rest is a lot easier.

It can help to help our children feel a part of the plan, whatever it is, a part of the change. So it’s not just, I’ve decided this and you’re going to do it this way. We’re sharing with you that, in this case, we are worried that there’s so much TV going on. We know it’s getting in the way of you doing other things that would be more therapeutic for you after school, that I know you don’t want to do. So we want to join with them that way, connect with, Yeah, you want to watch TV all the time. It’s easy, right? We can just sit there and watch it, it’s entertaining, it’s fun. And we’re okay with that at these designated times, that maybe you’d work on with your children. But at this age, you could probably decide we’re only going to do it on weekend evenings or something like that. And the rest of the time you can lie around, you can whine, you can tell us how mad you are, how much you want that TV. But this is going to be better for you, and we totally believe that. So bringing them into it is communicating that way, honestly, about what’s going to happen.

And then also, What would you like to do instead of TV that we can put out for you? We’re not going to be available to play with you because we’re getting dinner ready or we’re relaxing. We’d love to watch you. What would you like? Would you like Play-Doh? Would you like to draw? We have a craft box. You can make a fort. Or if you give us ideas, we’ll get that there for you because we know it’s hard when you’re used to watching TV. So, How can we help, how can we make this easier? And maybe they don’t have any ideas and they just want to hold onto the TV thing. Well, we’ve done our best. We’ve tried to bring them in and we’ve communicated to them honestly, we’ve done this all as a team here, we’ve told them about our decision. And from there, that’s where they need the healing of the feelings.

For this parent, she says, “How do we find the energy to cope with an actually increased difficulty level for a little while?” So I talked about that. Making peace with your children’s feelings, letting go of your past, no guilt going forward. Every day is a new day. And the positiveness of them sharing all these feelings, because it’s something they have to pass through to get to the other side. And what’s on the other side of it? The other side of the disappointment and the lethargy and the boredom—the other side is ideas, creativity, initiating activities that will feel good to them at the end of the day, better to them than these hours of TV. And it will build their confidence.

But she says they have another obstacle now because when they set the boundary, there’s a boundary within the boundary. So they’re saying, you’re not going to watch TV. And then she says that they get “climbed on, whinged at to actively play with them.” So, don’t let them start to climb. If they whinge, let them whinge, let them whine. It’s not at you. It’s releasing something for them, it’s positive. But if they start to climb: “You want to climb? Nope.” Put your hands there very firmly, keep them away. “We’re not going to let you climb. I know, you want to play with us, you want us to play with you. We’re not going to do that right now. We love you. We’re not going to do that.” Not a heavy thing, not an angry thing coming out of us, ideally, but that quiet conviction.

So yes, there’ll be boundaries within the boundaries, where essentially the children are really checking out, Do they have the strength to be our leaders? Do they have that conviction that we need to be able to let go of this? Because if they don’t, and it sounds like the way this has been going is the parent kind of collapses back into guilt and she’s not able to be strong when they’re climbing on her, and that leaves her children stuck continuing that. They don’t want to be doing that either, they would much rather be playing and enjoying themselves. But we have to release them through our conviction.

And when it comes to the threats of not letting them watch TV the next day, I would bring that up and say, when it’s time for getting in the shower or whatever, I would say, “Let’s get in the shower. Oh, you don’t want to. Come on, it’s time.” From that place of, We’re a team. We’re here because we care about you and we want to take care of what’s healthy for you. And if it’s something like a shower and they’re not filthy dirty, we might let that one go because that doesn’t have to be a firm boundary for them. They could have the choice and that might help them come to that better. Or, “Would you like a bath or shower?” or, “Should we just wash your face with the washcloth?” Letting them participate in that, so they feel a part of it. We’ll find that when we communicate as a team this way that we don’t need to use threats, and that the threats actually put a little wedge that’s going to make it harder the next time, as this parent realizes. She’s very perceptive about herself and how she wants to do the things that are hard right now to make it easier later.

And that’s exactly what’s going to happen. And maybe it starts with this big boundary around the TV, and that will show her and her partner that they do have the strength, when they rise into those heroic roles. Because they’ll see that their children will go through this and it’ll be very noisy and it will feel impossible in the moment. Then it will pass. And I bet that they find them playing together and doing something that’s really valuable. Or maybe it doesn’t look valuable, but just the fact that they’ve moved on is going to be amazing, and it will happen.

Here’s one more, and I also love this subject line, it’s “The Unlearning”:

Hello, Janet-

I know full well you may not have a chance to read this, let alone respond. Still, I’m called to write to you if only to seek the tiniest bit of hope. My son is an adventurous and playful 16-month-old. He is so, so attached.

When I recently turned to RIE practices, they took such a hold in my being because they resonate so truly. I deeply regret not finding this parenting work sooner, as I feel in so many ways I’ve failed my son in not fostering his independent play. I know this type of play is intrinsic and in the capacity of all children, but I can see how I’ve stunted his ability to enjoy it at this stage. I find so many of his challenges are linked to this: quick to be frustrated, angry, anxious when I’m not in his presence, wanting so badly to be playful and social, but being restless without me being there.

I’ve been working intentionally the last month to be clearer, firmer in my boundaries as a parent, and allow him plenty of opportunities for free play led by his own curiosities. But doing simple daily tasks like cooking and cleaning have become so hard, let alone when I try and sit near him and read a book while he plays. This is true whether we are at home, on play dates, or in a toddler and caregiver activity. I feel I’m stumbling and in the process feel myself losing the joy of parenting. I don’t want that for him or me.

If after all this time I’m seeing only the tiniest shifts and continued deep frustrations (I know this will take much, much longer, but it’s hard each day), what can I be doing differently? How can I continue to get out of my son’s way, trust his abilities, trust my leadership, and help reignite a love for independent time and play?

With so much gratitude for your work.

Okay, so the reason I love this title is that it is unlearning, but I’m not sure if this parent means it the way that I’m thinking about it. I’m thinking about it unlearning for us about our children’s feelings. Which again, is what most of my podcasts seem to be about. “Continued deep frustrations”—I’m assuming she means his are getting to her. She’s losing the joy of parenting. His unhappiness is ruining her happiness. It feels like she’s stuck, like he’s never going to change and she’s uncomfortable. So this is another form of a guilt cycle. She doesn’t say that I feel guilty, but she says, “I deeply regret not finding this parenting work sooner. I feel in so many ways I’ve failed my son in not fostering his independent play.” So that is weighing her down and making it impossible to have conviction and to face his feelings in a confident, welcoming way.

I mean, this happens to us, and it’s similar to what’s happening with the other parent. So yeah, that guilt thing—whatever she did in the past, she did with the best information. None of these parents are anything but very loving and caring, and really these are just minor issues in the scheme of things, very minor. But we just bag on ourselves so hard, don’t we? Because this job is so important to us, we care so much. But that hurts us and hurts our children. So for both of those reasons, not hurting ourselves and not hurting our children, move on. Start a new day. It’s all different today. I can be this person who believes in saving him from a joyless parent. That’s heroic, right?

The way we save him from a joyless parent is welcoming his frustration, holding those boundaries, not expecting him to accept them gracefully, carrying on when we need to do the simple tasks. And if he’s right there on her and she doesn’t have a gated-off kitchen or gated-off area for him near there, then just keep going. Show him that you welcome him: “You don’t want me to do this. You really want me to stay with you and I have to cook your dinner.” Where’s the guilt in that, right? If we think about it objectively, we’re doing our job. We’re doing all of this for him. So it’s heroic to allow this soul who can’t bear to be without his mother’s attention for a moment, he feels. He’s so in love with her, he’s so passionate, that he just can’t let her go. But this isn’t a sad story, it’s a love story. It’s love that he has for his mother and the time with her, and How am I going to let her go? And the love that she has for him, knowing that she has to help him let her go. He can’t be the one to do that. And she does it through believing in his right to feel those depths of feeling. She’s there for him, she’s not abandoning him. She’s just separating in reasonable ways to do the things that she needs to do.

So she says, “doing simple daily tasks like cooking and cleaning have become so hard, let alone when I try and sit near him and read a book while he plays.” Sitting near him and reading a book while he plays, that’s probably a little advanced for where she is in her process. She can get there. But I would work on the things where you can really feel conviction that you’re doing the right thing, not those kind of things like, Oh, it’d be nice to read a book, but can I really have conviction in that? We want to start small. We want to start easier with the things we feel sure about, the boundaries that feel more certain. It’s not safe for him to be in the kitchen under your feet, and you have to do these things. There’s every reason in the world to see this as an important boundary that’s in his best interest, that you can feel secure with and conviction in.

So that’s what I think is going on here, because she says she feels she’s stumbling and she’s losing herself and losing the joy of parenting. Going along, like the other parents with the TV, they’re just not feeling good about it. They’re beating themselves up, which is weakening them. And they deserve better, they deserve to feel strong and confident and like heroes for what they do out of passionate love for their children. The hard things that we do. Children give us this incredible practice at standing up for ourselves, being taller people with confidence.

And then a way, in this case, to help him feel a part of this is to be clear. “This is when I’m going to be with you. This is when I’m going to make dinner or do these chores. I know it’s not what you want. I know you want me to be with you all the time. And you know what? I wish I could, but I can’t. I need time to do other things, too. Take care of you, take care of the house, take care of myself.” That is the best way to bring him into this, just that honesty, that clarity. Because there probably isn’t a way that he can choose how to handle this, at 16 months. He will get to choose what he does, what he plays with, and maybe his choice is to stand there crying the first few times while you’re doing something. And ideally, we can accept that as what he’s doing in his time. He gets to choose that, we can’t choose for him that you’re going to play happily over here while I do this. That’s not part of setting a boundary. Setting a boundary is giving him his full right to disagree with our boundary.

And believe it or not, all of these types of exchanges, when we do them with respect and honesty and we aren’t afraid to say all the things about how mad he is and how much he wants us to still play with him, this brings us closer. Our child feels safer and more trust. They can feel more comfortable in their role as the child, not having to make all these decisions and tell people what to do. It actually increases our connection. I know it’s hard to believe, but it’s true.

And thank you to all these parents for sharing with me and for supporting this podcast. I really appreciate it, and I really hope some of this helps.

Thanks so much for listening. We can do this.

Please check out some of the other podcasts on my website, janetlansbury.com. They’re all indexed by subject and category, so you should be able to find whatever topic you might be interested in. And my books, No Bad Kids: Toddler Discipline Without Shame, and Elevating Child Care: A Guide to Respectful Parenting, you can get them in paperback at Amazon and in ebook at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and apple.com.

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